W/Th 16-17
LH
- Can you relate to Augustine's famous "ask" of God? Does it make him less "saintly" in your eyes? 35
- What do you think of the Manichaean "solution" to the problem of suffering? 36-7
- Even if you thought that "moral evil" and the suffering it produces was a product of human free will, how would you account for so-called "natural evil" (earthquakes, tornadoes, fatal diseases etc.) that no one chooses?
- Why do you think Boethius talks to Lady Philosophy, in his cell, and not to Lady Theology? 41 Why doesn't he acknowledge that he was a Christian? 43
- If a "God grasps everything in an instant" and "sees past, present and future as one," how can a human still be said to possess free will (if that will is supposed to be able to change future events)? 44-5
- Do humans really have an idea of God, that is, an idea of a perfect being that they are capable of understanding with their imperfect and finite intelligence? And if somehow they do, does that prove anything? 47
- Does Aquinas's First Cause argument make sense to you? Or do you wonder what would have caused the First Cause? And, would that be a God (with the moral perfection and personal interest in humans and the universe that most religious people in the Judeo-Christian and Islamic traditions affirm)?
FL
- Was Mark Twain right about "the mistake we all make"? 55
- Do you think Ronald Reagan really believed the Jefferson/angel legend? 58
- Do you agree with Andersen about the difference between Christians in Europe and in America? 59
- Are you surprised at what Jefferson told his French friend about religion in America? 60
- Do you wish you'd been at Cane Ridge? Or Woodstock? 62
- Were Finney and Whitefield right about religion as "show biz"?
- Was William Miller crazy? Why did he inspire so many Americans? 65
- Why did so many Americans believe Joseph Smith? 71 (And what would Kant say to them about that?)
- [Now I can't find my new questions on Time and Karma! So we'll improvise, starting with...
- How do you define "time"? I like Thoreau's, myself, though I don't entirely know what it means: "Time is but the stream I go a'fishing in." And Immanuel Kant, we'll see, says it's a category of our understanding but not something objective "in the world" (except insofar as we are)... And Einstein said past, present, and future are "stubborn illusions"...
- Mark Twain said history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes. 114 Do you think time is linear, cyclical, both, neither...?
- "When life is harsh, it is no surprise that so many look for salvation in a life to come." 117 And is that why some people believe in karma, too?
- "It's just karma." 120 When people say that, are they being fatalistic? Are they "blaming the victim"? Is it a (bad) solution to the problem of suffering?
- "The young no longer believe in karma... ideas of free will and aspiration have come in its place." 122 Is this a positive development?
==
Since we're talking free will, and because provocation and controversy make for better conversation, let me introduce you to Jesus and Mo (no offense or blasphemy intended):
Excerpt:
1
AUGUSTINE OF HIPPO (354–430)
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
—Paul, Colossians 2:8
AUGUSTINE, a teenager studying in Carthage in the 370s, begins to ponder what he will one day consider the inevitable shortcomings of human philosophy ungrounded in the word of God. This process begins, as Augustine will later recount in his Confessions, when he reads Cicero’sHortensius, written around 45 b.c.e. The young scholar, unacquainted with either Jewish or Christian Scripture, takes away the (surely unintended) lesson from the pagan Cicero that only faith—a faith that places the supernatural above the natural—can satisfy the longing for wisdom.
“But, O Light of my heart,” Augustine wrote to his god in Confessions (c. 397), “you know that at that time, although Paul’s words were not known to me, the only thing that pleased me in Cicero’s book was his advice not simply to admire one or another of the schools of philosophy, but to love wisdom itself, whatever it might be. . . . These were the words which excited me and set me burning with fire, and the only check to this blaze of enthusiasm was that they made no mention of the name of Christ.”
The only check? To me, this passage from Confessions has always sounded like the many rewritings of personal history intended to conform the past to the author’s current beliefs and status in life—which in Augustine’s case meant being an influential bishop of an ascendant church that would tolerate no dissent grounded in other religious or secular philosophies. By the time he writes Confessions, Augustine seems a trifle embarrassed about having been so impressed, as a young man, by a pagan writer. So he finds a way to absolve himself of the sin of attraction to small-“c” catholic, often secular intellectual interests by limiting Cicero to his assigned role as one step in a fourth-century boy’s journey toward capital-“C” Catholicism. It is the adult Augustine who must reconcile his enthusiasm for Cicero with the absence of the name of Christ; there is no reason why this should have bothered the pagan adolescent Augustine at all. Nevertheless, no passage in the writings of the fathers of the church, or in any personal accounts of the intellectual and emotional process of conversion, explains more lucidly (albeit indirectly) why the triumph of Christianity inevitably begins with that other seeker on the road to Damascus. It is Paul, after all, not Jesus or the authors of the Gospels, who merits a mention in Augustine’s explanation of how his journey toward the one true faith was set in motion by a pagan.
It is impossible to consider Augustine, the second most important convert in the theological firmament of the early Christian era, without giving Paul his due. But let us leave Saul—he was still Saul then—as he awakes from a blow on his head to hear a voice from the heavens calling him to rebirth in Christ. Saul did not have any established new religion to convert to, but Augustine was converting to a faith with financial and political influence, as well as a spiritual message for the inhabitants of a decaying empire. Augustine’s journey from paganism to Christianity was a philosophical and spiritual struggle lasting many years, but it also exemplified the many worldly, secular influences on conversion in his and every subsequent era. These include mixed marriages; political instability that creates the perception and the reality of personal insecurity; and economic conditions that provide a space for new kinds of fortunes and the possibility of financial support for new religious institutions.
Augustine told us all about his struggle, within its social context, in Confessions—which turned out to be a best-seller for the ages. This was a new sort of book, even if it was a highly selective recounting of experience (like all memoirs) rather than a “tell-all” autobiography in the modern sense. Its enduring appeal, after a long break during the Middle Ages, lies not in its literary polish, intellectuality, or prayerfulness—though the memoir is infused with these qualities—but in its preoccupation with the individual’s relationship to and responsibility for sin and evil. As much as Augustine’s explorations constitute an individual journey—and have been received as such by generations of readers—the journey unfolds in an upwardly mobile, religiously divided family that was representative of many other people finding and shaping new ways to make a living; new forms of secular education; and new institutions of worship in a crumbling Roman civilization.
After a lengthy quest venturing into regions as wild as those of any modern religious cults, Augustine told the story of his spiritual odyssey when he was in his forties. His subsequent works, including The City of God, are among the theological pillars of Christianity, butConfessions is the only one of his books read widely by anyone but theologically minded intellectuals (or intellectual theologians). In the fourth and early fifth centuries, Christian intellectuals with both a pagan and a religious education, like the friends and mentors Augustine discusses in the book, provided the first audience for Confessions. That audience would probably not have existed a century earlier, because literacy—a secular prerequisite for a serious education in both paganism and Christianity—had expanded among members of the empire’s bourgeois class by the time Augustine was born. The Christian intellectuals who became Augustine’s first audience may have been more interested than modern readers in the theological framework of the autobiography (though they, too, must have been curious about the distinguished bishop’s sex life). ButConfessions has also been read avidly, since the Renaissance, by successive generations of humanist scholars (religious and secular); Enlightenment skeptics; nineteenth-century Romantics; psychotherapists; and legions of the prurient, whether religious believers or nonbelievers. Everyone, it seems, loves the tale of a great sinner turned into a great saint.
In my view, Augustine was neither a world-class sinner nor a saint, but his drama of sin and repentance remains a real page-turner. Here & Now==
An old post-
Augustine & string theory
Is anyone, from God on down, “pulling our strings”? We’d not be free if they were, would we? If you say we would, what do you mean by “free”? Jesus and Mo have puzzled this one, behind the wheel with with Moses and with "Free Willy." But as usual, the Atheist Barmaid is unpersuaded.
(As I always must say, when referencing this strip: that’s not Jesus of Nazareth, nor is it the Prophet Mohammed, or the sea-parter Moses; and neither I nor Salman Rushdie, the Dutch cartoonists, the anonymous Author, or anyone else commenting on religion in fictional media are blasphemers. We're all just observers exercising our "god-given" right of free speech, which of course extends no further than the end of a fist and the tip of a nose. We'll be celebrating precisely that, and academic freedom, when we line up to take turns reading the Constitution this morning.
No, they’re just a trio of cartoonish guys who often engage in banter relevant to our purposes in CoPhi. It’s just harmless provocation, and fun. But if it makes us think, it’s useful.)
Augustine proposed a division between the “city of god” and the “earthly city” of humanity, thus excluding many of us from his version of the cosmos. “These two cities of the world, which are doomed to coexist intertwined until the Final Judgment, divide the world’s inhabitants.” SEP
And of course he believed in hell, raising the stakes for heaven and the judicious free will he thought necessary to get there even higher. If there's no such thing as free will, though, how can you do "whatever the hell you want"? But, imagine there's no heaven or hell. What then? Some of us think that's when free will becomes most useful to members of a growing, responsible species.
Someone posted the complaint on our class message board that it's not clear what "evil" means, in the context of our Little History discussion of Augustine. But I think this is clear enough: "there is a great deal of suffering in the world," some of it proximally caused by crazy, immoral/amoral, armed and dangerous humans behaving badly, much more of it caused by earthquakes, disease, and other "natural" causes. All of it, on the theistic hypothesis, is part and parcel of divinely-ordered nature.
Whether or not some suffering is ultimately beneficial, character-building, etc., and from whatever causes, "evil" means the suffering that seems gratuitously destructive of innocent lives. Some of us "can't blink the evil out of sight," in William James's words, and thus can't go in for theistic (or other) schemes of "vicarious salvation." We think it's the responsibility of humans to use their free will (or whatever you prefer to call ameliorative volitional action) to reduce the world's evil and suffering. Take a sad song and make it better.
Note the Manichaean strain in Augustine, and the idea that "evil comes from the body." That's straight out of Plato. The world of Form and the world of perfect heavenly salvation thus seem to converge. If you don't think "body" is inherently evil, if in fact you think material existence is pretty cool (especially considering the alternative), this view is probably not for you. Nor if you can't make sense of Original Sin, that most "difficult" contrivance of the theology shop.
"Augustine had felt the hidden corrosive effect of Adam's Fall, like the worm in the apple, firsthand," reminds Arthur Herman. His prayer for personal virtue "but not yet" sounds funny but was a cry of desperation and fear.
Like Aristotle, Augustine believed that the quality of life we lead depends on the choices we make. The tragedy is that left to our own devices - and contrary to Aristotle - most of those choices will be wrong. There can be no true morality without faith and no faith without the presence of God. The Cave and the Light
Bertrand Russell, we know, was not a Christian. But he was a bit of a fan of Augustine the philosopher (as distinct from the theologian), on problems like time.
As for Augustine the theologian and Saint-in-training, Russell's pen drips disdain.
It is strange that the last men of intellectual eminence before the dark ages were concerned, not with saving civilization or expelling the barbarians or reforming the abuses of the administration, but with preaching the merit of virginity and the damnation of unbaptized infants.Funny, how the preachers of the merit of virginity so often come late - after exhausting their stores of wild oats - to their chaste piety. Not exactly paragons of virtue or character, these Johnnys Come Lately. On the other hand, it's possible to profess a faith you don't understand much too soon. My own early Sunday School advisers pressured and frightened me into "going forward" at age 6, lest I "die before I wake" one night and join the legions of the damned.
That's an allusive segue to today's additional discussion of Aristotelian virtue ethics, in its turn connected with the contradictions inherent in the quest to bend invariably towards Commandments. "Love your neighbor": must that mean, let your neighbor suffer a debilitating terminal illness you could pull the plug on? Or is the "Christian" course, sometimes, to put an end to it?
We also read today of Hume's Law, Moore's Naturalistic Fallacy, the old fact/value debate. Sam Harris is one of the most recent controversialists to weigh in on the issue, arguing that "good" means supportive of human well-being and flourishing, which are in turn based on solid facts. "The answer to the question, 'What should I believe, and why should I believe it?' is generally a scientific one..." Brain Science and Human Values
Also: ethical relativism, meta-ethics, and more. And maybe we'll have time to squeeze in consideration of the perennial good-versus-evil trope. Would there be anything "wrong" with a world in which good was already triumphant, happiness for all already secured, kindness and compassion unrivaled by hatred and cruelty? I think it might be just fine. Worth a try, anyway. Where can I vote for that?
==
M/T 14-15. Here's the School of Life on Stoics & Epicureans... (find accompanying text by searching "Book of Life")
“‘Stoicism’ was a philosophy that flourished for some 400 years in Ancient Greece and Rome, gaining widespread support among all classes of society. It had one overwhelming and highly practical ambition: to teach people how to be calm and brave in the face of overwhelming anxiety and pain…” You can read more on this and many other topics on our blog TheBookofLife.org: https://goo.gl/GKlHa5
“‘Stoicism’ was a philosophy that flourished for some 400 years in Ancient Greece and Rome, gaining widespread support among all classes of society. It had one overwhelming and highly practical ambition: to teach people how to be calm and brave in the face of overwhelming anxiety and pain…” You can read more on this and many other topics on our blog TheBookofLife.org: https://goo.gl/GKlHa5
LH
- Was Epicurus right about fearing death, and the best way to live? 23
- Are you an "epicure" in either the ancient or contemporary sense of the word? 24
- Was Wittgenstein right about death? 25
- Have you experienced the loss of a loved one as a tragic "event" in your life?
- Was Epicurus right not to worry about an afterlife? 26
- What do you think of the Stoics' "basic idea"? 29
- Do you feel better about growing old and eventually dying, after reflecting on Cicero's ideas? 30
- Was Seneca right, are most people's lives long enough? (Or would they be, if people stopped wasting so much time?) 31
- Is there a danger of becoming cold and heartless, if you become a Stoic? 33
FL
The philosopher Susan Neiman argues that the absence of appealing models of maturity is not an accident: by describing life as a downhill process, we prepare young people to expect - and demand - very little from it. In Why Grow Up? she challenges our culture of permanent adolescence, turning to thinkers including Kant, Rousseau, and Arendt to find a model of maturity that is not a matter of resignation. In growing up, we move from the boundless trust of childhood to the peculiar mixture of disappointment and exhilaration that comes with adolescence. Maturity, however, means finding the courage to live in a world of painful uncertainty without giving in to dogma or despair. A grown-up, Neiman writes, helps to move the world closer to what it should be while never losing sight of what it is.
Why Grow Up? is a witty and concise argument for the value of maturity as a subversive ideal: a goal rarely achieved entirely, and all the more worth striving for.
Susan Neiman at the Southern Festival of Books, Nashville - October 2019 - "Learning from the Germans"
==
In that spirit, perhaps we should all read our (Jefferson) Bible.
- The Founders were Enlightenment rationalists and pragmatists devoted to secular government and a "wall of separation" between church and state, but the myth persists among many Americans that they intended to establish "a Christian nation," a theocracy not unlike those in the Islamic world. Why do you think that is?
- Why do you think Americans have been so obsessed with Hell?
- What do you think accounts for "the Affections" of some fundamentalist church services ("moaning, weeping, screaming, jerking, fainting" etc.)?
- Was Jefferson's advice to his nephew good? 51
- What do you think of Kant's motto? 52
- Will reason eventually win out in the "marketplace of ideas"?
- Do you have any significant philosophical differences with your parents? Do you discuss them? Do you want to?
- Does "nirvana" (Enlightenment, personal liberation) have to be the same for everyone? What would be your personal definition/experience of nirvana?
- Matthieu Ricard has been called the happiest man in the world. Do you think eastern philosophies focused on the alleviation of suffering are a more promising route to happiness than its "pursuit" in the western/Jeffersonian tradition of individualism and personal liberty?
- Is "Holy Spirit" something real and supernatural, or is it the name of a natural form of experience best studied and explicated by neuroscientists, and analyzed by philosophers?
- Have you been "born again," or encouraged by faith leaders or peers to seek spiritual rebirth? Is that something real, metaphorical, or delusional?
- Why did the founders omit reference to God in the Constitution, do you think?
- Do you think it takes courage to think for yourself and invoke reason against superstition, tradition, etc.?
HWT
[I posted a bunch of questions about Pragmatism, Tradition, etc., but they have somehow and maddeningly disappeared into the ether-!!-so I leave you to fashion your own... but here are a couple at least:
- If you're going to be a Stoic, should you also be a kind of Pragmatist?
- Is anything, any practice or belief, ever totally justified merely because it's traditional, just because "that's the way we do things, and our ancestors did before us"?
From Up@dawn, Sep16: I composed and thought I'd posted a bunch of questions for discussion, pertaining to the Baggini chapters. They've vanished, maddeningly, but I do want us today -- or eventually, we'll revisit the subjects of Pragmatism and Tradition later in the semester -- to ponder Peirce's statement about not pretending to doubt in philosophy what we do not doubt in our hearts, Dewey's repudiation of "the problems of philosophers" in favor of "the problems of men," and James's quintessentially pragmatic question, "What concrete difference will its being true [or being believed to be true] make in anyone's actual life?"
Found 'em:- Why are so many more Americans than Brits (etc.) religion? 80
- Is James right to emphasize the "concrete differences" of ideas and beliefs? 81
- Is Dewey right, do we often "get over" philosophical problems rather than "solve" them?
- Is Peirce right, that we shouldn't pretend to doubt in philosophy what we do not doubt "in our hearts"? 83
- Do you like Peirce's definition of truth? 84
- Is Rorty right about truth as "intersubjective agreement"?
- Why did America give the presidency to a "vulgar property developer"? 86
- Do you support "the reality-based community"? 88
- Should later thinkers consider themselves "mere commentators"? 91
- Should enlightened thinkers still venerate tradition? 92
- Is a Golden Age ahead of us, behind us, or nowhere? 93
- Is it possible to work within a tradition while also critiquing it independently?96
- Can truth-seekers also be way-seekers, and vice versa? 99
- Is it possible to "engage in the world" without strong reliance on concepts and language? 100
==
What Is Enlightenment?
by Immanuel Kant
Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage [immaturity]. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment.
Laziness and cowardice are the reasons why such a large part of mankind gladly remain minors all their lives, long after nature has freed them from external guidance. They are the reasons why it is so easy for others to set themselves up as guardians. It is so comfortable to be a minor. If I have a book that thinks for me, a pastor who acts as my conscience, a physician who prescribes my diet, and so on--then I have no need to exert myself. I have no need to think, if only I can pay; others will take care of that disagreeable business for me. Those guardians who have kindly taken supervision upon themselves see to it that the overwhelming majority of mankind--among them the entire fair sex--should consider the step to maturity, not only as hard, but as extremely dangerous. First, these guardians make their domestic cattle stupid and carefully prevent the docile creatures from taking a single step without the leading-strings to which they have fastened them. Then they show them the danger that would threaten them if they should try to walk by themselves. Now this danger is really not very great; after stumbling a few times they would, at last, learn to walk. However, examples of such failures intimidate and generally discourage all further attempts... (continues)
==
Our culture is obsessed with youth-and why not? What's the appeal of growing old, of gaining responsibilities and giving up on dreams, of steadily trading possibility for experience?
The philosopher Susan Neiman argues that the absence of appealing models of maturity is not an accident: by describing life as a downhill process, we prepare young people to expect - and demand - very little from it. In Why Grow Up? she challenges our culture of permanent adolescence, turning to thinkers including Kant, Rousseau, and Arendt to find a model of maturity that is not a matter of resignation. In growing up, we move from the boundless trust of childhood to the peculiar mixture of disappointment and exhilaration that comes with adolescence. Maturity, however, means finding the courage to live in a world of painful uncertainty without giving in to dogma or despair. A grown-up, Neiman writes, helps to move the world closer to what it should be while never losing sight of what it is.
Why Grow Up? is a witty and concise argument for the value of maturity as a subversive ideal: a goal rarely achieved entirely, and all the more worth striving for.
“Growing up means realizing that no time of one's life is the best one, and resolving to savor every second of joy within reach. You know each will pass, and you no longer experience that as betrayal.”
“Freedom cannot simply mean doing whatever strikes you at the moment: that way you're a slave to any whim or passing fancy. Real freedom involves control over your life as a whole, learning to make plans and promises and decisions, to take responsibility for your actions' consequences.”
“A defence of the Enlightenment is a defence of the modern world, along with all its possibilities for self-criticism and transformation. If you’re committed to Enlightenment, you’re committed to understanding the world in order to improve it.”
“Reason drives your search to make sense of the world by pushing you to ask why things are as they are. For theoretical reason, the outcome of that search becomes science; for practical reason, the outcome is a more just world.”
“When consuming goods rather than satisfying work becomes the focus of our culture, we have created (or acquieced in) a society of permanent adolescents.”
― Why Grow Up?: Subversive Thoughts for an Infantile Age
― Why Grow Up?: Subversive Thoughts for an Infantile Age
Susan Neiman at the Southern Festival of Books, Nashville - October 2019 - "Learning from the Germans"
==
Jefferson was a self-avowed Epicurean and materialist. "Spiritualism" for him is a term of abuse applied mostly to the Platonic tradition. "Of Jesus he says, 'I am a Materialist; he takes the side of spiritualism.' [But] perhaps Jesus could be interpreted as an Epicurean after all."
In that spirit, perhaps we should all read our (Jefferson) Bible.
I think that death is a very interesting thing to talk about. It is something that nobody will truly know what happens until it happens, so it has stayed a mystery for all of time. However, Epicurus talks about death on page 25 of A Little History of Philosophy to where it is not really an experience that happens when death occurs. It is not really a feeling either. He says that death is more of just a thing that happens that everybody else can see besides the person that is dying. I think that is very interesting that in this way of thinking about death, we as humans can feel and understand everything that is happening up until the actual point of death.
ReplyDeleteOne of the next questions that happens is what happens to the sole when it actually leaves the body after death occurs? It is not talked about as much in the book, but I think that you either go to Heaven or Hell. If you devote your life to God and do good deeds throughout your life, then you will make it to Heaven. However, if you do the opposite, then you will end up in Hell. One thing he also talks about is the identity of the body. Once there is no longer life in the body itself, it no longer has a true identity. The sole is the only thing that lives on and what people remember from that persons life. You have to leave behind the things you want people to remember while you are alive because that is the legacy people will remember.
Points earned 20/20 5 points for each essay (4 essays)/9 comments
I would also ask what exactly is a soul and how different people may answer that question. Since a soul is not much more than a concept that we may have with the absence of any scientific evidence, I wonder if the concept of a soul is simply to make people more comfortable with their eventual mortality?
DeleteI like how you compared human mortality to the concept of having a "soul". Like you said, It's an extremely tough topic to tackle or debate because of the lack of scientific evidence, but I believe that the concept of a soul could be compared to something stable like consciousness. There is surplus evidence on the human conscience and its functions.
DeleteHello Mason, I am curious about your interpretation of how the soul arrives at its final destination. You mentioned that if you devote your life to God and do good deeds throughout your life, you go to heaven and likewise if you do bad deeds your whole life you go hell. Where would you say a soul would go to if the individual lived a life of frivolous temptation and "sin" as I would call it and lived almost to the level of say Hitler in his level of evil actions, but genuinely asks for forgiveness on his death bed? Is he allowed into heaven? would he go to Purgatory instead to help amend these deeds?
DeleteHey Mason, i like seeing different views about religion and the afterlife. I am curious on the part about if you do good you go here if you do bad you go there. But what constitutes as good or bad? If a man kills someone but devotes his life to "God" would he be accepted into heaven? If a man who has done nothing but good but doesnt share the Christian belief or their version of "God" would he be condemned to hell ? How do we get to judge whats good enough for heaven and whats bad enough for hell?
DeleteI would be comfortable with a blend of Epicureanism and Stoicism. Try to avoid pain and experience pleasure (not hedonistic pleasure) and focus on the things you can control and avoid spending too much time on the ones you cannot. We are all going to die and when we do, the universe will go on existing. I cannot change that and if I get this post in, I’ll get credit for this week’s essay.
ReplyDeleteI want to discuss a couple of the other questions with an observation about Western Philosophy. A few years ago, a geneticist Spenser Wells, wrote a book and did a video about the Journey of Man – A Genetic Odyssey - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_xTG6VXlIQ. The research he and others did showed the DNA connection of all people on Earth. There were a few migrations out of Africa, one went along the Indian Ocean and the other in about 40,000 BCE went to little area in Kazakhstan in Central Asia. From there a group of humans moved eastward toward Siberian and then across to North and South America. The other groups moved westward toward Europe. They know this because they can identify markers on the DNA.
Some Western philosophers ask who are we and why are we here? I think the better question would be when did we first appear on Earth? We know from fossils remains, none of which were available to early Western philosophers that early humans had populated the Earth hundreds of thousands of years. During those years, two things stand out: They were social animals and they had a hierarchical structure. Their goals were to survive, procreate, defend their territory, rob, steal, or kill their weaker neighbors or in some cases cooperate with them against a common enemy. There was no thought about making sense of the world or finding a meaning for life. Then one day or night perhaps around the campfire someone might have seen an event and they tried to make a connection. A black cat appeared, and a child got her fingers burned in the fire. They immediately blamed the black cat; they would have blamed a white one if it had been available. Then man/woman became storytellers although woman never got any credit, but they told the story and the next person elaborated on it and soon anything that they could not be explained they looked for a mysterious force to attribute it to. Lightning struck a tree - mysterious force not that there were more positive charges or negative charges that created the attraction—scientific knowledge they would not have for thousands of year.
Everything was communicated orally and so soon man/woman created God. Once they could write, all kinds of creation stories popped up. The Ark story in the Old Testament was told by an earlier civilization but they didn’t have copyright laws back then. So, philosophers trying to answer the question who we are and why are we here started with their own library of stories and accepted them as gospel and debated how to prove them so they would agree rather than questioning their source.
Now religion and beliefs are an important part of our world because they help some people find meaning for why they are here. For others like followers of Buddha, they are happy living in peace with nature (I realize this is too simplistic but just as a comparison). Dr. Oliver mentioned Jefferson’s Bible – I have it and if the people of the world followed the teachings in it we would definitely be a lot happier, but most “Christians are unaware that the books in the New Testament were not agreed on as part of the canon for longer than we have existed as a nation.
I point this out because questions of “First Cause” start by assuming that there had to be something that existed before anything else did. It’s an argument that cannot be proven or disproven, but the earliest humans started from the same point after they had lived tens of thousands of years accepting that “I exist, therefore I am and if I die tomorrow I cease to exist. Just a thought for discussion.
Very thoughtful post, Don. I think you're right, we've been the Storytelling Species from near the beginning. Telling a better, ever-more-unifying, less divisive story about ourselves may be the condition of our survival... and finally heeding the message of the Jefferson Bible and the "sublimity" of its ethical teachings (minus the supernatural speculations that would divide us into the saved and the damned) might be precisely the story to rescue us from our present distress. It might teach us not to fret that "I" will cease to exist, but to exalt in the fact that "we" will continue.
DeleteHow do so many branches of Christianity come from one book? This is something I was thinking about whilst reading Fantasyland and it struck me as odd because I did a little searching and there are over 200 different denominations of Christianity just in the US.
ReplyDeleteI think as people we tend to believe that the first thing that comes to our head must be correct because we tend to not think we are wrong. In some ways this can be good, it is good to have strong moral opinions that you won't stray from but having closemindedness towards a singular book seems rather odd. I have always read books as art, meant for interpretation but never for truth. Just because I think a cloud looks like an ice cream cone doesn't mean that it does for everyone. I believe this applies to the Bible as well. Just because someone reads something differently doesn't make it correct. There are denominations that worship golden plates (Mormons) those who convulse and lash out during church (Pentecostal) and many other estranged traditions. This seems almost something of a cult than an organized religious practice, but this is Fantasyland.
I do also ponder in thought why people must be concerned with something as prevalent as death. It seems almost childish to be concerned with something so commonplace but I understand the willingness to exist. I believe that as people we strive to be known, understood, and even loved. After death occurs we lose that since we do not get to known the events prior to the end of us. This still seems out of place to worry about. If we worry about the after of our death then why not the before?
I just wrote my weekly essay discussing Epicurus and his view on death and I see many correlations between your discussion of death and the way that Epicurus saw death. The fear of death is based on bad logic and the assumption that it is an experience that we will have! I like that you mentioned the commonality of death as well!
DeleteI think an important virtue to have is one of an open mind but one of logic. Religion can be diverse but, at least in my opinion, still rooted in some kind of theological logic. I can't justify the creation of a denomination created because of human concerns rather than theological ones.
Delete"Seems almost something of a cult than an organized religion." What is a organized religion if not a more powerful cult with many devoted followers and recognized by the world and other religions? It's interesting how the definition of "cult" has changed to something with a negative connotation.
DeleteEmily,
DeleteA cult is directed towards one object or person rather than many things such as traditional Christianity. For instance Christians normally worhsip the trinity of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. What i was directing towards was the worship of the leader of the denomination rather than God.
Tuesday: Weekly essay posted (3 points)
DeleteWednesday: (commented on Emily Klunk's post 1 point)
Wednesday: (commented on Nate Carely's post 1 point)
Wednesday: (responded to Emily Klunk's comment on my essay post)
Total: 5 points this week
In response to your question about the number of denominations, I think there are so many interpretations of the Bible and to keep into account the shifts of culture that may influence these individuals deciding to stray may have some part in the number of denominations. It is very interesting how people can interpret the Bible in a way that can almost disregard what was actually being said in the Bible.
DeleteIn reference to the 200 different denominations of christianity in the U.S. I have experienced that religion means difference things for different people whether that be a hope of peace for the after life, a foundation to build a good life upon, a safety blanket, or for some just simply a fairytale simply good for a bedtime story. For as many worshipers that there are, there is just as many reasons why they get pulled to a particular religion, and for the same reasons people accept religion is the same reason it pushes people away.
DeleteI do think death plays a large role in religion considering so many people are terrified of the unknown, and they want to feel like they know what will happen when they die.
DeleteI agree Cole!! I think any book should be read for gaining knowledge not worshiping. The bible is weird. The people that strongly worship the bible are weirder. The book says their God wants them to love and accept everyone. But they take that as love and accept everyone that benefits their own personal believes and what they think is right . For example with being gay or apart of the LGBTQ+ community. The Christain God says love and accept everyone but they dont want to or think its right because the bible says being gay is an abomination? But then the bible turns around and says no sin is greater than the other? So its all just really weird. Some would probably accept a murderer into their "heaven" than someone who cant help who they love or like.
DeleteI think you'll find the development/change of the word cult to be very interesting. Webster can't always be trusted to give you the whole truth/story. I'm also in a Religion Studies course and has definitely opened my eyes to these changes.
DeleteChristianity has been a splintered religion from the beginning. Even in the original church had many different factions. Even in the New Testament Paul specifically targeted breakoff shoots of Christianity with denunciations.
DeleteWeekly Essay Post (+3 points)
ReplyDeleteQuestion: Was Epicurus right about fearing death, and the best way to live?
I was very much fascinated by the reading from "A Little History of Philosophy" by Nigel Warburton (pages 23-27). I myself am the kind of person that thinks a lot about the things that many may consider as dark topics and I try to confront them head on and think about these things in ways to face reality. In general, I like the idea of thinking about everything that can go wrong in your life as well as mentally putting myself through terrible scenarios. I believe that this can prepare us better for how to react. The way that we think about death is certainly based on fear and I think that many people focus too much on this aspect of death. It really is the uncertainty that drives our fear. I really enjoy the view that Epicurus had with regards to how we view death. Epicurus suggested that we should not fear death at all because our fear of death is based on bad logic (LH 23). Death is not something that we will actually experience because death itself is the process of the "removal of the possibility of experience" and we will therefore not experience it (LH 25). His view point certainly solidified my own view of death and I feel more reassured by that logic. For this reason I believe that Epicurus is absolutely right about his reasoning behind not fearing death. Thinking about death in this manner oddly makes me more curious about it rather than scared because it is an unknown that we will not experience and therefore never know much about it until we get there.
Commented on Mason Schoonover post (+1 point)
Delete"I was not; I have been; I am not; I do not mind" I identify with Epicurus's epitaph. Reading his stance on death definitely solidified my stance as it has yours. The way I way face death has been something I've thought about and keeps me away from certain dangers but actuality of my death hasn't ever scared me.
DeleteI think the Epicurean argument definitely has some compelling content. I especially like the part about the past, for some reason, not holding as much value as the future. I think he is right when he says that it doesn't make very much sense. I'd be interested in learning more on the subject.
DeleteNate Carley i also find that interesting about the past having less value than the future. I believe that makes a-lot of sense because you can always control how you let things affect you from your past, however you will never know how future events will effect you so it is in your best interest to do everything you can to secure your future.
DeleteI agree and I think it is very easy to think negative and come to the worst outcome almost every time. We as humans have to try and think more positive and I find it very interesting we thing negative almost all of the time and think of the worst outcome instead of the best.
DeleteI think this is a really good way of thinking about this topic. When a thought becomes normal it's rarely worrisome.
DeleteI agree that Epicurus had the right opinion about death. I think that it's okay to wonder about death but to fear something that we have no way of experiencing to me seems pointless. I liked what he said about the past not being as important to us ( a common theme it seems), better to worry about the present that we can control rather than things that are out of our control.
DeleteI agree that Epicurus's opinion on death solidify my opinion on death. Usually death is seen as a bad thing because bad things happen before death most of the time.
DeleteSimon, I think one difficulty that people have is the finality of death. When my mother died, I could no longer tell her about what her grandchildren were doing. I know there is talk about an afterlife, but I have not found anyone who can tell me what their vision of one is. Do they want to come back at the moment they died or as a young child, or teenager? If you think of death as an eternal sleep, one day you will not wake up and that will be for eternity. People that were close to you will remember you for a little while, people who were acquaintances will move on with their life and if they think of you at all, it might be on some special day. As I walk through the Stones River Cemetery and look at so many graves marked "Unknown," their relatives could not even visit them to pay their last respects. When I think of the 200,000 Americans who will have shortly lost their lives to COVID-19, some of them were not even afforded the dignity of sharing their last minutes with relatives. The word "death" has meaning for those left behind not for the deceased. When you die, you have no more fear of death, it is the people who are left who need to be comforted not by "I know how you feel," or "they're in a better place," because unless you've lost someone you do not know how it feels. I know a mother who lost her teenage daughter, most of her friends avoided her because they did not know what to say. I did not know what to say either, all I said was let me give you my telephone number and if you want to talk I'm ready to listen and that helped her through some difficult times.
DeleteSimon I agree with your support in this definition. In fact, when I first read this in A Little History, I immediately looked up other definitions of the process and nature of death. After about 10 minutes of searching I concluded that Epicurus's interpretation is the best LOGICAL definition. Now concerning the ILLOGICAL definition, I believe that death is a release from our responsibilities and if it were to happen naturally then it was an EARNED release.
DeleteCommented on Cole Walker post (+1 point)
ReplyDelete"Someone who sets sail in a ship and is carried this way and that by stormy winds hasn't been on a voyage. He's just been tossed about a lot. So it is with life. Being out of control, drifting through events without finding time for the experiences that are most valuable and meaningful, is very different from truly living." LH
ReplyDeletepg 31-32
Reading this statement at first, I snorted at the wording "being tossed around a lot.” The turns of phrase and witty explanations are why I always enjoy reading Little History but then it hit me right between the eyes that's exactly how people seem to live their days; myself unfortunately included. Getting up, morning routine, head to work to make the money you need to pay the bills, coming home and watch/read/write/draw whatever something; perhaps a drink or two (if you're legal *cough cough*) then bed. All that to do it all again day after day after day. This isn’t to say that we don’t do things that we love and only focus on making that money (that workaday mentality we touched on in discussion today. Capitalism can really take the joy out of life). Those things that makes us happy/love to do just seem to become more epicurean in the modern sense. We have a cheat day on eating healthy, splurge on a new outfit/technology, play a game for six hours (I’m only slightly ashamed to admit that), so on and so forth. In my experience, we have become less moderate in our past-times and seek that pleasure to set the scales slamming down to outweigh our exhaustion at our own self-imposed routines. In other words, humans are creatures of routine in our modern setting and then when we explode out of our routine, we go “Nova. And it is glorious.” Nova by Margaret Fortune.
Section 11
DeleteEssay +3
Comments: Simon Pergande, Cole Walker +2
I think in my older post I talked about how capitalism has influence the way we live in luxury as we age, to become independent,more self aware in our surrounding, yet our time is dependent on fulfilling our roles like studying or working on a daily basis, it is as if the supply and demand in our jobs is more important than having a leisure or a break from this cycle. During our leisure time, we are given many options on how to satisfy our boredom ( not sure if it's just because the signal waves or chemicals in our brains are telling us that we need to do that or if we generally have that feeling),but there is some days where we just lie in bed and scroll through social media, only sleep, or binge watch the show. Some people enjoy the moment at THAT time, while others regret feeling like they could've done something else which could make you think in some occasions (procrastination). Overall, Society and Capitalism has created a standards or protocols to follow for at least the middle to lower classes, that's why routines seems repetitive and time flies by, but there was a moment where we stop or we decided to spend time with others, it makes the day and memory for the most part everlasting.
DeleteI like the examples that you gave for this topic. I agree that it can be hard to face this truth when we realize it. I think that especially this year by spending 6 months in quarantine, most people realize how it feels to be trapped in routines. Facing this problem will hopefully make us enjoy those breaks of routine, and strive for them more often.
DeleteI agree. Living in today's world is like a balance between the questions, "Do I deserve a break?" and, "How luxurious can I afford to make this break?" (Luxury could mean anything from a day-off, a 10-minute break, a new expensive item, or a trip depending upon the person.)
DeleteIt is very difficult to look at your own life subjectively because as humans we like to think of ourselves as diverse and many other things. The reality is that we are creatures of habit which can be either good or bad. For instance, if someone has made a habit of being a good person and helping others everyday then this is good. You can examine the inverse of this, sometimes people go through their days helping no one and hurting mostly everyone. You can see that habits can be very bad so I believe that it is necessary to try different things everyday.
DeleteI think people do get into a routine and don't live their live to the fullest most of the time. I think people would be much happier if they tried new things more often. I try to do something different at least once a week to not get into a habit of doing the same things over and over again.
DeleteAdditional comment on Cole Walkers. Total points: 19/20
Delete• Do you agree with Andersen about the difference between Christians in Europe and in America? 59
ReplyDeleteI think Andersen’s belief on American Christianity can best be summarized in his portrayal of what he thinks to be an American Philosophy. He says at the bottom of page 49 that “If I think it’s true, no matter why or how I think it’s true, then it’s true, and nobody can tell me otherwise.” I think this is the best possible way he could have expressed it. I agree with him whole heartedly when he says the Protestant Reformation was the birth of this Philosophy. I think it stated with King Henry and his influence, moving away from theological reason, to create the Church of England.
I think Andersen would agree that it chummed the waters so to speak for more similar acts. The saddest thing is I also think he was right when he spoke about the witch hunts. A lot of the people probably did believe that witches were running around hurting people. I agree with Andersen that it wasn’t just about the acts of human social affairs, but that people really did believe in these lies. When Protestant Christianity moved away from the hierarchical Europe, people were free to recreate the act of King Henry repeatedly until it was almost unrecognizable.
The lines between reasonable theological conclusion and lies plastered over by convenient indoctrination are so ingrained in the American culture, especially American Christianity, that it has become distinct among other Christian traditions around the world. This is why I agree with Andersen about his distinction between European and American Christianity.
I agree with your points. I think that the witch trials are a really good example for this topic because, as you said, the people involved most likely truly believed what they were saying. This example shows Andersen's main point that Americans sometimes believe things simply because they can.
DeleteYour view aligns very closely with Anderson! If religion is faith is typically based on a higher power, does that define all denominations of Christianity as a legitimate religion? I think the most interesting cases of this are seen in Mormons and the Church of Christ. The former added a book to their faith, full of fantasyland-ish ideas and the latter has strict attendance requirements and extreme rules for their congregations. Both of these add human interventions to the higher power's rules. Should they still be considered legitimate religions? This is all rhetorical, I'm just sort of typing my thoughts as they come. But then again, I guess any faith could be classified as having human intervention because religion is a human thing.
DeleteIt is scary to think that those people very much believed what they did during the witch trials. Proof or not, they simply believed so clearly what was right and wrong, taking matters into their own hands. They chose to believe because, well, what was stopping them?
DeleteReligion is always fascinating to me because I am a Christian, but I wouldn't say I have traditional beliefs. I believe in God and that he is the Creator and that Jesus was sent to the Earth to save us. That is normally where i stray from traditional beliefs. I dont attend church regularly because i don't think you can examine the Bible without understanding it in a different way than it is meant to be understood. Either way, this religion along with almost every others has the bad apples which are normally the ones that everyone thinks of.
DeleteKing Henry's stance on protestantism was very interesting indeed. First he was against it, then he was open to it, then he had one daughter who burned protestants and another daughter who assassinated Catholics.
DeleteI think Jefferson’s advice to his nephew was good. When one is able to start making decisions for themselves, I don’t think they should practice a religion just because their family tells them to; they should choose to do so or not do so for themselves. I think people should question everything, and only believe what they feel is their truth. Of course, when questioning a religion, idea, or even science, it should be done with respect. The founding fathers do not appear to have been Christians, but they were respectful towards others and just asked them to question their beliefs.
ReplyDeleteI have been baptized, but this was never referred to as being born again. In my church, it is described as “opening the door to Jesus that will never again be closed to you.” Baptism is something my church (Lutheran) does at birth, though I wasn’t baptized until I was seven because that’s when we moved from a nondenominational church. At the nondenominational church, your baptism had to begin with a moving speech, where you were expected to cry in front of the whole congregation. I thought it didn’t seem sincere when I saw the older kids do it, so I didn’t know what I thought altogether about baptism. At my new Lutheran church, I’d watch the pastor baptize babies and this made more sense to me because I think babies sin too, and thus need saving. We have a different signifying moment of spiritual rebirth and that would be Conformation. Conformation is two years of classes, typically from seventh to eighth grade, where you become an “adult” member of the church. Basically, you just start taking communion. To be confirmed, you have to write a faith statement defining the reasons of your faith. I don’t think either of these practices have to be a real spiritual rebirth for every person, personally I think my spiritual rebirth wasn’t until later. For me, spiritual rebirth is when you choose to start actively pursuing your faith. Putting a time mark on when this is supposed happen seems silly, but I do think it is a real, spiritual thing.
I think the founders omitted any reference to God in the Constitution because they were not practicing Christians other than claiming to be so in front of the public and attending church. I’m happy that they weren’t because it resulted in the “freedom of religion” that I’m so glad to have today. America should be founded on freedom to practice whatever religion you want or don’t want to. What it shouldn’t imply (or more that I wish that it didn’t) is that you can believe whatever you want just because you want to. I know this seems contradictory, but what I mean is that I hate when people think medical science is wrong because they believe it is. If it is against their religion, then I understand… but anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers seem straight up ignorant to me. They believe that masks and vaccines are hoaxes that don’t work, even though many scientists say that it is true. Masks and vaccines aren’t even against these peoples’ religions, it seems like they’re just being difficult because they want to. Obviously, I am heavily biased here because my exceptions to “freedom of religion” are specific, but overall freedom of religion is more important to me than ignorant people abusing the premise.
It was quite fascinating read about your experience when you were baptized, and I feel like going through that moment, in my opinion, a physical representation/ manifestation of a spiritual rebirth or acceptance. While in actuality it's find the spiritual acceptance within yourself. But I understand what you mean by practicing whatever religion you want or to be invested in one thing but neglect that there's other alternatives and also abuse I guess the titles or names in order to make yourself defined, while not doing any action (okay maybe I'm saying the idea of taking credit of something you didn't work hard on). Your example with the anti-vaxxers and maskers, does feel like ignorance I would also love to add flat earther but okay, anyways, I don't understand why these kinds of argument stirrup and that this is "disrespecting" their religion or people believe that it's not "constitutional" when in actuality there's different aspects within the religious or political material talking about the health and welfare of others as well sharing love. Do people in the categories not care for their health as well as others? I do wish people more respectful in people's religion and ideals and not just take one perspective and just stick with it, because that would make those individuals bias,selfish,and inconsiderate.
DeletePosted essay on Tuesday (3)
DeleteCommented on Eli Ownby, Nate Carley, and Emily Klunk's posts (3)
20/20
Commented on Cole Walker's post created on September 15th at 1:27 pm at 3:34 pm (1 point)
ReplyDeleteCommented on Simon Pargande's post created on September 15th at 2:00pm at 3:42pm (1 point)
Created my Weekly Essay (3 points)
Can you relate to Augustine's famous "ask" of God? Does it make him less "saintly" in your eyes? 35
ReplyDeleteI can definitely relate to Augustine’s famous “ask” of God (LH 34), and I feel like anyone who believes in God can relate as well. The belief in God is one-hundred-percent faith based, because obviously there is no proof. As humans, it’s very hard to solely rely on faith for anything, much less the fact that God could be real. If God is truly all good, then he could never blame humans for questioning him. The amount of evil in the world today is sickening to anyone with morals, and because of this, the idea of God will forever be in question here on earth. I believe you could argue against Augustine’s statement that God “can’t” stop evil things from happening (LH 35). If God undeniably proved himself to be real, then what would be the point of us being here? Who in their right mind would deny a God that has obviously proved himself? What would be the point of faith-based religions like Christianity? I think if God does exist, he wouldn’t want his followers to be forced upon him.
weekly essay+comment
I agree with your point that if God is real, then God wouldn't blame humans for questioning/doubting. Also to your point about not having followers forced on God relates back to free-will.
DeleteI don't fully understand religion but I think your right if god was proven real there would be no point in faith.
DeleteThe idea that God doesn't want people to be forced to worship him is pretty well established early on in the old testament. The whole point of putting the Tree in the Garden of Eden was supposed to be to make sure humans had a choice.
DeleteThis topic I'll be scatter-brain, since the topic of death is a lot to think about. Do we fear death because we embrace and enjoy life? But also what do we enjoy in life that makes us keep going? What is our motivations that makes use strive? Like most people have religious beliefs that carries themselves through life, some want to be the best or to be remembered even beyond death, some want to live simple and others just haven't found that purpose yet.Death is viewed differently in many cultures,as well as the cause of death. I agree with Epicurus's view in death,with the idea of finding happiness and to remember the past from who we are surrounded by and what we are surrounded by.I think what matters is the thing that satisfies our role in life. Some people in life feel like their fate is predetermined because of their faith, while people live through life on a daily basis.I think that there's a core,source or value in death that is meaning of absences, death is always around us no matter how little it is,and yet the after-effect of being absent from "normality".The reason I believe we fear death is because we see life as a line like on a heart monitor. Things can be calm,hectic, but in the end it's a straight line.We always think about what the next step is when we go through life as if everything is suppose to connect, as if we know all the answers, it's hard to live through the future, if you don't know how to live through the present.
ReplyDeleteSeptember 15th,Tuesday's Essay: +3
DeleteSeptember 16th, Wednesday's Comments:
-Commented on :
Barbara Frizzell +1
Emily Klunk +1
Zalen Ingram, Sec-10
DeleteThe reason I fear death is close to your reasoning, more along the lines that I don't want to die; I feel that I haven't done enough in my life to justify that I have 'lived'. Once I'm older and nearing a natural death, I would just like people to remember me after I have passed, as there is nothing I can do to stop the inevitable.
Weekly Essay - section 12
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think Americans have been so obsessed with Hell?
For Americans raised in one of the branches of Christianity, the concepts of Heaven and Hell are extremely important. At the end of your life, Christians believe that you will end up in one place or the other, depending on how you lived your life. This scares many people, as they believe that any wrong choice could lead them to eternal damnation. Different religions, whether out of personal interest or genuine fear, use varying levels of harshness in explaining these concepts to scare people. In America, many children raised Christian are taught to have this fear of God and of Hell, and this feeling carries on into adulthood and is then passed down to their own children. This is why Christians pay much attention to Heaven and Hell, as their actions everyday could bring them closer to either one.
I also think the afterlife and its possibilities scare religious people. Many people worry too much about their wrong choices, no matter how small and insignificant, in fear of being sent to hell.
DeleteI would like to add on that, the thought of an afterlife is really just the same idea of karma. Karma and its fundamentals can be seen throughout multiple religions and in think is really just a reflection of human guilt. If a normal person does something bad they are going to be extremely anxious that something equally as bad will happen in return due to the negative energy they have created and put into the world.
DeleteI agree with this, part of it being some humans like the idea of always being right. Humans get gratification from seeing people who do not agree with them suffer because of their viewpoints, thus proving they were correct. They put so much emphasis on heaven and hell is to prove only their path is the correct one.
DeleteI think people in general are curious about unknown things. Especially if it's about Heaven or Hell. The fact that it scares people makes them obsessed with making bad choices.
DeleteWeekly Essay 9/16/20
ReplyDeleteCommented on Nate Carley's Post
Commented on Emily Klunk's Post
Why do you think Americans have been so obsessed with Hell?
ReplyDelete- As someone who isn't religious and didn't have an upbringing involving the tellings of heaven and hell, I find the obsession with hell in particular very interesting, if not odd. I see it as a place where people want to send those who have done them wrong; where they believe someone who has sinned belongs rather than their precious heaven. Yet they fail to realize everyone has a different idea of sin, of what constitutes reason to be sent to hell once you die. Perhaps this constitutes the reasoning behind said obsession - maybe it's a wish to not go to such a hellish place, to believe that you yourself have not committed such sin in a lifetime. No matter what or how other people view you as, good or bad, you grow up thinking, at the very least, you are a good person; innocent, even. You justify righting any wrongs, that the biblical definition of sin can be stretched just enough to give you leverage in the afterlife should there be one at all. This obsession with the very idea of hell itself is a clue into how society sees life and death, truly; either you are a good person (heaven) or a bad person (hell) in the eyes of many, ignoring the vast gray areas in between. section 011
essay - 3
Deletenate carley - 1
kimmie steakley - 1
total points as of now - 20
This idea is very interesting. I grew up being so scared that I would end up in hell even if I did the littlest thing wrong. The idea of heaven and hell is very black and white and it seems no one ever talks about "the vast grey areas in between."
DeleteDo you think Ronald Reagan really believed the Jefferson/angel legend? 58
ReplyDeleteI was drawn to this question about Ronald Reagan because my mom is a fan of him so she took us to visit his birthplace in Tampico, Illinois. The day that we went there was February 6, 2011 and they were having a special event to mark the 100th anniversary of his birth. Since I was about 10 years old, I do not remember much of the details of his home, but I do remember the souvenirs that I got that day. They included a postcard and a stamped commemorative envelope that feature the same image - a double rainbow. The tour guide told us that the double rainbow appeared over Ronald Regan's birthplace in Illinois on the evening before he was to be inaugurated as president in Washington. Someone that he knew snapped the photograph and presented Reagan with a copy of it. The president allegedly kept the photograph is his desk drawer and would pull it out when he needed inspiration. Based on this story from people who knew him, it seems to me that he might be the kind of person who believed in signs and miracles. Another reported story that Ronald Reagan was prone to believe in the fantastic involves his alleged UFO sighting as governor. He was quoted by a Washington Post reporter as saying "I don't know what it was, but sure was interesting." There are also stories about his wife believing in seances and astrology. So, if you are asking my opinion, it does seem like Ronald Reagan could believe in stories of Angels and founding fathers.
https://www.tampicohistoricalsociety.com/R_Reagan_Birthplace_Museum.html
section 11
Deleteresponded to Miranda September 17 10:30am and Blake Hughes at September 17 5:22pm +2
Weekly Essay September 16 1:37pm +3
Grand Total 21 points
Were Finney and Whitefield right about religion as "show biz"?
ReplyDeleteAlthough this is a very bold statement, I personally could not agree more. Showbiz is essentially asking the audience to suspend their disbelief and indulge in the fantastical facade a group of people is putting up in front of you. And there are so many similarities between the two! Religion and Showbiz both can involve singing, dancing, costumes, an audience, and so much more. However i don't necessarily think there is a "right" way to describe religion. On top of that saying all religion is showbiz seems quite degrading. In simple terms yes everything is showbiz. Everything we watch or see or even how we present ourselves in a social setting can be considered showbiz, because we are crafting the perfect character in order to elicit a desired outcome by our audience. In a way i think Finney and Whitefield were intending this statement to degrade organized religion. As an atheist i personally think aspects of it are preposterous as well, but i don't believe religion is completely trivial as the word "showbiz" may imply. I believe it is important for some people to create and craft a religion to give their lives meaning. It gives people structure which some may not be able to find without imagining a higher power.
Zalen Ingram, Sec-10
DeleteI agree with most if not all of your arguments, the saying that everything could be interpreted as 'showbiz' is an interesting take. I like how you said that even though religion could definitely be called showbiz with all the similarities, to say such a thing would be ultimately demeaning to those who are spiritual, as even though I am also an atheist, I have nothing but respect to those who do believe in religion.
Zalen Ingram, Sec-10
ReplyDeleteI do think that I try and follow an epicurianistic way of life somewhat, as in trying to spend and cherish the most you can out of your life, void of anxiety and doubt. It has more to do with the idea that death is not the end goal in life and that when it comes, you should rather be thankful for your life knowing that you did all you wanted to do than fear the end of it, wanting more out of something you took granted for. However, even though I believe in living the best life and accepting that their is an end, at times I get an awful feeling in my gut when I really start to think about how it really is going to all end one day. I get over it within a matter of minutes, but it stays in the back of my mind whenever death is ever even mentioned. Another reason why I believe that epicurianism is a good way to think at times, to live life full of pleasures to eliminate negative thoughts, however I think stoicism is a better example of how I want to live. Through stoicism, if you have the power to change what can happen, then it depends on only you to do so. If something is not within your control, then why fret over it? I see this as a nearly perfect philosophy to life, I strive to think that it may even be the best. However, with the wrong mindset, stoicism can become the worst. If one were to think that they can't do even the simplest of tasks, then they simply won't do it. If they think it's impossible, then it will become impossible. On the other side of the coin is one with an overly ambitious goal in mind; they will work towards that goal maybe even their whole life, which ultimately isn't a bad thing at all. However, if that goal truly is impossible without their knowledge, they could become discouraged and depressed, wondering how they could have spent that time of their life, or become swallowed by their ambition and work til the end of their days. These are extreme examples, but they serve as reminders that not one single philosophy is perfect, but rather they should be thought of together to find what is best for you to live your best life.
Comments on:
DeleteMai-Thi Kieu
Calvin Parrack
without going into any religious debates or lectures I can say that I also struggle with this to some extent. i often have great anxiety over missed opportunities or regretful things I have said... but I have come to this conclusion (through religion.) that i cannot really control much of what goes on around me, we can barely control ourselves if we want to be honest. but i don't think that means we shouldn’t try to do our absolute best to be a better person. great post! thank you for being so open.
DeleteI agree with you on your opinion of stoicism, I think that of the areas of philosophy that we've covered so far, and the ones I knew about before this is by far my favorite approach. I think you're right that one of the important aspects of stoicism is the mindset that you approach it with. It can be a liberating experience and outlook but can very quickly turn to a depressing and overwhelming mess. Dr. Oliver said in one of our zoom calls that he prefers to pick and choose when it comes to views on philosophy and I think that's really the only way to do it. Like most things wholeheartedly believing in one thing opens you up to biased opinions and outlooks that can alienate others from yourself. I liked your post and enjoyed reading it!
Delete• Even if you thought that "moral evil" and the suffering it produces was a product of human free will, how would you account for so-called "natural evil" (earthquakes, tornadoes, fatal diseases etc.) that no one chooses?
ReplyDeleteI think for natural disasters, they are events not necessarily evil, but rather “action sequences” to which test our human will. In the current moment what will someone decide? Will they choose to risk their life to help save someone from a building that is collapsing? How about swimming out to someone stuck in their car in the middle of a raging river in the streets? These events are not bad, but are chances for mankind to kind of redeem itself. I personally think all events in life happen for a reason. Coming from a religious standing, I think God places these doors, these disasters or events that are not like disasters, to test our free will and see whether or not we will follow through with our personal beliefs or stray towards our own personal desires that may infringe others. I think it’s very hard to personify something that isn’t human, that isn’t morally dualistic like humans. I think natural evils would be evils created naturally by humans such as Hitler’s regime of Germany and mass extermination of the not just Jews but others as well. Natural evils come from the human, the morally bad side of humanity. I think in this question it could be easy to defer “ natural” as something that comes from only nature or from the Earth, although humans (according to my beliefs) are from dust, and from dust we shall return. To close, I think natural disasters could not be recognized as “natural evils” but rather unique events that test humanity’s free will. (+3)
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that is a very interesting way to answer the age old question of why does evil happen? the only think that I would comment on in your post is that God causes these disasters-- (if we are referring to the Judea-christian God.) I agree with you that God uses these disasters as an opportunity for Humans to share his glory-- I do not agree That God specifically causes these events, I personally subscribe to the thought process that all evil in the world us a bi-product of when adam and eve sinned in the garden (as it is theorized that the first animals where slaughted to clothe adam and eve, that it had never rained before noah,ect.) anyway great blog post excited to see more!
DeleteA difficult question was raised during a discussion this week, one that I am not fully able to answer: “was Epicurus right to not fear death? “now I feel this is a multi-layered question. Epicurus was the founder of the epicurean strain of philosophy, in modern terms he was the founder of the Lion King’s “Hakuna Matata.” View on life. He believed in a life guided by pleasures, happiness, and communal living (though he was not considered to be a hedonist). I would argue that his most interesting aspect of his believe system is his lack of fear towards death (as he was rather apathetic towards the idea of Gods, so he had no believe in the afterlife.) This all leads back to the question: was he right in not fearing death? I would say, afterlife or no afterlife he is incorrect. I feel that one should not be paralyzed with the fear of the inevitable—I do feel that one should be afraid of wasting ones’ life in pursuit of simple “happiness”. I believe that life is not a video game, nor should one treat it as such. While I can agree that one should not shape ones’ life to appease the status co. one should be striving for more than simple sensations and fleeting emotions, the mark of a great man’s life (or any life for that matter) is their ability to overcome adversity. To push through life’s evil and torment to the other side. I believe that Epicurus belief system encourages those to waste their lives in a trivial manner and is there for irresponsible.
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I agree with you that someone should not trade their ambitions to obtain a simple "happiness" and that you should not be paralyzed by the fear of death as it's unavoidable. I don't totally agree with you that the majority of our experience as humans revolves around the "negative emotions", while I agree that they're not the most pleasant and they're definitely a part of our stories I think that they're just a part and the things that have affected me the most are the realizations and the positive memories that have come out of those unfortunate emotions or came freestanding on their own.
DeleteI think you've misunderstood Epicurus, if you think he was an advocate for "simple sensations and fleeting emotions" alone. He and his friends were dedicated to the pursuit of a life of serious contemplation and mutual support, not passing pleasures and hedonistic self-indulgence. It's not just a "No Worries" philosophy. You actually agree with Epicurus when you say "one should not be paralyzed with the fear of the inevitable"--that's pretty much the point of Epicureanism. And if you explained to him what a video game is, he would agree with you: that's not living.
ReplyDeletefor me personally the more i research Epicurus and his philosophy , the more i personally disgree with him. i believe the idea of searching only for happiness, and not overall fulfillment, is a bit misguided. i feel as though a majority of the human experience is colored by the most negative of emotions... anger, betrayal, rejection, hatred, loss, mourning-- while all of these emotions are incredibly dreadful, we really wouldn’t be human without them. perhaps epicurus was afraid of these feelings? as he did see this as his only existance, perhaps he wanted the smoothest ride possible? as for me i have to refer to the great philosopher jimmy buffet "some of its magic, some of its tragic, but i've had a good life all the way"
Deletethank you so much for taking time out of your day to respond, always appreciate your thoughts and opinions. see you in class.
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ReplyDelete- Do humans really have an idea of God, that is, an idea of a perfect being that they are capable of understanding with their imperfect and finite intelligence? And if somehow they do, does that prove anything?
I personally do not believe that humans have an idea of god/gods, at least a good idea. When looking within the same religion people still see god as different things. For example this also points to why there is so many paths of the Abrahamic religions that all come from the same source of Abraham and his two sons. All three religions (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.) share the same deity, but are all viewed on a totally different spectrum. While most agree God is all knowing and all powerful, some would say he is all loving while others will vengeful or wrathful. In humanities quest to make God perfect, every aspect that is not understood or doesn't fit the paradigm is attributed to the Holy Ghost, or also known as Gods wills. For every inconsistency with how people view good, such as a good person dying young, or a bad person flourishing life, it is viewed as the "plan" and apart of his "mysterious ways".
This isn't including other religions that have multiple deities. Often in these religions each deity has one aspect or domain and can be considered flawed. Ex. One deity for love, one for vengeance. This makes these religions propose deities that are more relatable to us humans. To sum up, I don't believe that humans have a good idea of what god is, as a perfect being.
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This is very true. Even looking at Christianity alone, there are so many different branches and all of them portray God in a different light. I believe the idea of God is just to complex and that is why humans have so many different religions and ways of practicing like you state.
DeleteI agree. I think people try and cope with all the unknowns and complexity of God by filling in the missing bits with whatever they believe. Even one center belief gets separated into different religions through the details. I don't believe we have the proper knowledge to make true sense of it all.
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ReplyDeletejared quillosa
zalenl
phil oliver
.Is there a danger of becoming cold and heartless, if you become a Stoic?
ReplyDeleteI think this is a genuine concern when it comes to becoming a stoic. While the concept of removing complex emotions and worries to make life much more straightforward seems appealing, I do feel that it comes at too much of a cost. To have your life become simpler we sacrifice all of our emotions, despite it being a key part of being alive in a sense. It feels almost robotic to get rid of those pesky emotions and worries even if it does make you whole. I don't blame anyone who would want to practice being a stoic. It's very difficult to argue that emotions don't cause us distress and sadness in our lives. But,they also bring us happiness and compassion which are enable us to be a community of people in the world. If one was to become a stoic it would be inevitable that they would be cold and heartless, which I don't feel to be worth it in the end.
. Why do you think Americans have been so obsessed with Hell?
It's a pretty universal concept. Many religions have interpretations of an underworld / hell like "Naraka" in Hinduism. It's widely known that hell is a terrible place and if you are a bad person in life you will get a one way ticket there. Even at a young age I know about hell, so even in our society children understand what it means. Now as to why it's what we're obsessed with in America? The majority of America is Catholic, so it only makes sense that the most common interpretation of a threat here is hell itself. By saying someone is "going to hell", they easily understand they are calling you a bad person.
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I agree, I feel like we need our emotions even though they can cause us stress. But, they can also make us feel the greatest joys and taking that feeling out of life would make life seem very plain and boring. I also don't think in the end it's worth giving up our emotions.
DeleteI also see that Americans are very obsessed with hell and I do see it as them calling someone a bad person. I also like to think that people who believe in hell wants there to be a place where all the bad/evil people go to. This way they will not be in Heaven and cannot be happy there.
I would agree in its very hard to argue with emotions and emotions are not something you can change even if you want to change them. Emotions can be good or bad just like you explained them. Emotions are a way to express our feelings and it shows if we are happy or sad to others.
DeleteI agree, x3, lol. I can definitely see the viewpoint from the other side, but it's just too much of a sacrifice, for me. It's interesting to think about, and certainly could be proven useful, in many situations, However, I feel like you would lose the sense of yourself, that makes you special, and connects you, with the ones you love.
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ReplyDeleteHave you been "born again," or encouraged by faith leaders or peers to seek spiritual rebirth? Is that something real, metaphorical, or delusional?
ReplyDeleteI was born into a catholic family; therefore, I was baptized when I was just a baby. I was born just outside of Chicago where almost everyone was catholic. I was pretty sheltered growing up and I attended a private catholic school. I did not really learn much about other religions I only learned about religion though my church and school. That being said moving to the “bible belt” was quite a culture shock.
The friends I made down here, when I moved, were mostly Baptists. That being said I was invited to many different Baptist churches. I enjoyed it at first, but after a while it became repetitive. It was always the same ordeal even with different churches. They would have the quite piano music playing the background while the preacher would ask if anyone wants to give up their life for Jesus right then and there. The multiple times I went to camp it was a really big deal if you were to be “born again.” Everyone would applaud and congratulate you. At the time, I never felt the need to be saved again I was already baptized when I was little, and it just was not a part of my religion. However, it was highly encouraged by all the leaders. It seemed you could only truly live the way of Christ if you were baptized and you could be baptized multiple times. To me, that did not make sense. In a way, being introduced to the Baptist faith made me question Christianity altogether.
As I grew older, I came to the conclusion that the Catholic Faith was not meant for me, neither was being Baptist. I would not say I was a Christian either, just because I find myself with so many questions about the faith. One of the questions being why should you be baptized in the first place? I never could quite wrap my mind around the idea that the first women on this earth ate an apple and that now we are all sinners at birth. Another question I also had about the Baptist faith was, If you truly loved God and followed in his ways but never got “saved” then would God be so unjust as to putting you in hell for eternity?
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I was raised kind of similar to you, I was raised in a Baptist Christian household and went to a private Christian school up until 5th grade, in 6th grade I was switched to public school. Being switched to public school made me realize how many different beliefs people have. I decided about a year, maybe year and half, ago that I am not Christian. I also had questions like yours. It is good to hear there are other people that feel the same as me.
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Hello Kiera. I enjoyed reading in your post. I love hearing the different ways of people growing up. The south definitely is mainly baptist and I would agree with you it's very repetitive and every baptist church is about the same and sometimes they even sing the same songs as other churches. Growing up in Chicago and then moving here, I am sure that was a huge changed and took some time to get used to it.
DeleteI agree with a lot of what you question about the Christian faith. The entire ordeal just does not seem to make sense if one would only step back and look at the religion without an objective mind. I have questions similar to yours, but a few of my own. Other religions existed before Christianity, so did those people go to Hell because they believed in what Christians would call a false God? That just does not seem quite fair.
DeleteI can relate as I was also raised Catholic and baptized as a baby. I also attended a catholic private school from k-8th grade and probably share many similar experiences with you. I understand the struggle of questioning your faith and even with the exact problem you brought up about God rejecting you if you weren't baptized. In a lot of ways, I don't really know how to answer these questions, but what I can say is that in 8th grade, my class and I got confirmed which is basically a second baptism in which you actually got to choose God yourself this time. I always found that a bit comforting. That a part of the faith actually allows you this choice and confronts the whole baptized as a baby thing.
DeleteWas Epicurus right about fearing death, and the best way to live?
ReplyDeleteI think that Epicurus was correct that we should not fear death. Death is something we as humans will never know the truth of until we have died. I agree with him saying that it is a waste of time to fear death because there is nothing we can do about it. There is no way of us knowing what will happen to us after we die, so why worry about it? Personally, I do not believe that we will feel pain after death so this may be why Epicurus' cure works for me. When the book discusses how Epicurus views on the best way to live I differ from him a little. I think it is okay to have large desires we may or may not satisfy. I feel if we live too simple life will not be as exciting as it could be. I feel like we would not live life to the fullest if we only desire simple things that are basically guaranteed to happen.
Have you experienced the loss of a loved one as a tragic "event" in your life?
I lost my grandfather about 2 years ago. He was the only grandpa I had growing up, so this was something that was difficult. When I first found out he passed I was very upset and it hurt my heart. However, he decided to have a celebration of life and this changed my outlook on his death. It made me realize I was happy for the time I had with him and he is now at peace, kind of like what Epicurus said. I have this outlook now for whenever someone I know passes away. I know they are at peace and no longer hurting. So, I wouldn't describe death as "tragic" to me anymore.
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I agree with what you say about Epicurus and fearing death. It makes sense to try and enjoy what time we have while living. If there is nothing we can do to change the fact that we will one day die, then why worry about it now, when in reality it could happen at any given moment.
DeleteI feel like people find peace with death when they are satisfied with the life they've lived. I feel like a lot of fear centering around death comes from mostly the unknown because we've been conditioned to fear the things we don't understand, but also it can be rooted in regret. All the things we never got to do or experience takes on toll on us because death is permanent. But it's also inevitable. Maybe the fear of death is meant to propel us to grip life by the reins and do all that we can with it.
DeleteFirst I truly am sorry for your loss, it seems like, at least from what I'm reading, that you loved your grandpa very much. Second, I think it's really nice that you guys held a celebration of life instead or mourning his death. I think it's really important to look back on the things they accomplished in life rather than think of the things they won't get to experience. This is kind of corny, but as long as you remember them, they at the very least live on with you.
Delete“Why did America give the presidency to a ‘vulgar property developer’?”
ReplyDeleteDonald Trump’s election really comes down to a number of very complex issues with American society nowadays, first and foremost of which is the desire of those seen as ignorant to prove themselves intelligent only to confirm their ignorance. The majority of Trump’s most hardcore supporters have proven themselves ignorant to the complexities of modern issues such as abortion and gun control, and along came someone who tells them that they were right all along and it’s just everyone else who is ignorant. Considering this particular crowd is also the demographic most likely to vote, considering many of them are paranoid that if they don’t then all the fake scenarios they make up in their head such as the democrats coming to take their guns away will come true, they greatly outnumbered the lazy millennials who think that voting is going on Twitter and voicing their opinions through emojis to all 3 of their followers. It also comes down to the issue with many Americans where rather than idolizing who we should be, we idolize who we want to be. Just take a look at pop culture: the vast majority of people will tell you that Iron Man is their favorite character from the Avengers movies because he’s who we want to be (rich, handsome, sarcastic, powerful) rather than Captain America which is who we should strive to be (intelligent, courageous, honorable, mature). So many Americans fell for Donald Trump’s lies because they feel that by following his word then they may one day be as rich as a man with more bankruptcies than years in the White House, rather than realizing the value in a leader who speaks to them as opposed to at them. Though I believe it only applies to a minority of those who voted for Trump, I do believe another reason for his election was just due to how unlikable Hilary was to many voters. However, now that we have a democratic representative with 8 years of experience under the greatest president since Kennedy and a vice president beloved by the anti-Trump crowd, it’s quite safe to say that America will not make the same mistake twice.
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I disagree with most of your points made politically, however I do believe you made a great point when talking about idolizing the wrong people. I completely agree. I think today, people idolize the complete wrong people and honestly I think idolizing people is rather ignorant. It makes us blind to one's mistakes. Nobody is perfect and that's a good thing to keep in mind.
DeleteWhile i do not classify as a republican or democrat i understood this. I do get that while the world only sees Trump as negative and is blinded to the good he has actually done, the stupid people who believe these antiquated ideas feel as though they now have a solid footing to make said arguments regardless of how poorly thought out these arguments are. They are also the only ones people see or know about because idiocy sells, and they fit the media's agenda of pushing negativity the way of Trump.
DeleteVery well-worded, and I couldn't agree more. I love how you compare the topic to the situation of Cap Vs. Iron Man, because it works so well, and helps the discussion become even more accessible to other people. (While I love both, Steve will always be my favorite og Avenger, right after Natasha.)
DeleteHere's hoping America will not make that same mistake twice, come this voting season. :)
The Question I picked: Do you wish you'd been at Cane Ridge? Or Woodstock?
ReplyDeleteI would have rather been at Cane Ridge then at Woodstock. Before this week's readings I didn't know much about either event. I have heard way more about Woodstock then I did about Cane Ridge. Cane Ridge seems to have been a little more relaxed then Woodstock. Going to Cane Ridge I think I would learn alot about faith and religion and how people portray that in their life. People think about religion all very differently and going to Cane Ridge you can hear different speakers and their ideas. According to the book Fantasyland it seems as christianity was the biggest religion at this meeting. It also seems christianity became even more huge after this hige event took place. When it comes to Woodstock its not that I wouldn't want to go I would just chose Cane Ridge over Woodstock. I am not a huge concert type person and Woodstock seems it may be like Bonnaroo. I am not a huge fan of loud music and alot of people and I feel that would of defitnelly been Woodstock.For the longest time I didn't know where these places were and when they took place and after researching both I was surprised to see how long ago it was. Cane Ridge happened in 1801 and Woodstock was in 1969. Cane Ridge definitely happened a long time ago which surprises me. I think in todays world we should have more meetings/ festivals like Cane Ridge and Woodstock. I think gathering around with like minded people as yourself would help today's world a lot.
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Hi Miranda. I am with you. I personally hate outdoor concerts. Woodstock with all its excessive activities would be too wild for me. I an mot sure how I would feel about attending Cane Ridge either with all of its crowds. However, I think that i would enjoy preaching more than partying.
DeleteDo humans really have an idea of God, that is, an idea of a perfect being that they are capable of understanding with their imperfect and finite intelligence? And if somehow they do, does that prove anything?
ReplyDeleteI do not believe that humans can grasp the concept of God if there is one. Humans seem to grasp so little of the world they live in, let alone that of a higher level of being. For centuries, humanity has wrestled with the concept of a God, or in some cases, gods, that rule over everything. If it were possible to grasp the concept of a god, and the power and knowledge a god must possess, that understanding would propel humans to the level of a god. I am not religious in the sense that I have read all the books and go to church on Sunday, I simply refuse to put blind faith into something that I cannot understand. If there is a God, how am I to understand the absence of his presence? People try to justify this, saying it's all part of plan, that there is a higher order to things, but where do they get this information? It is this blind faith that keeps people dedicated to the cause of their religion, it is what makes them useful idiots to their God, if he sits idle on his throne watching his 'plan' unfold, as many would like for us to believe. People cannot understand his actions, or rather, his lack of action, so how would they grasp the concept of the entity itself? The presence of a God, or gods, was established when people still believed the Earth was flat, and to go too far in one direction would result in falling off, even in today's age there are questions concerning the material world that cannot be answered, let alone questions of the spiritual world.
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I totally agree with you, we still with all of this technology we have today still cant explain a whole lot of our material world. So why are we freely following a god that has no presence in our world let alone spiritual.
DeleteI strongly agree with you Eli because I have recently started to not necessarily turn to be an atheist, but rather become tired of people continuously refer to God's reasons for things as a reason for certain events that you can eventually prove through a scientific process. I also believe the key way to think about this question is to look at it as humans cannot understand god because you have to be "God-like" or inhuman to understand so this is where I kinda feel there is no reason to try and understand writing by such a "God."
DeleteWas Wittgenstein right about death? 25
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion Wittgenstein is right about death. I do not think we should fear death because like he said we would not experience it. Our death would not be something that happens to us. It would happen to the people around us. They would be consciously living and feeling after our death. Our lives are events and moments we experience, but death is the removal of said experiences. Death is an event that annihilates both the person and the world. Not something we can be conscious and keep living through it. Which is true even if you believe in the afterlife you would not be continuing your old conscious life you would be beginning your new way of life in whichever afterlife or religion you believe in. People should feel comfortable or be prepared for death because none of us can stop it. We are a condition of the world, so we do not belong to the world. The only understandable feeling is fearing how we are going to die. However, that is still something out of our control unless self-inflicted. Me personally share that fear. I am worried about dying horrifically or suffering, but its all up to chance and possibility. Death is inevitable, so why waste time fearing when there is so much to do and accomplish while being alive We should keep living these moments trying to find our peace and philosophy and worry about the affect and mark we’re going to leave behind on the world and our loved ones.
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I completely agree with you because I interpreted Wittgensteins thinking in the exact same way. I also believe that death is nothing to be afraid of. I find it interesting that you mention it " annihilates person and world because I can see where you are coming from and it interesting to look more into how the world moves on without that person.
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ReplyDeleteI do think that Epicurus had the right train of thought when it comes to fearing death. It's natural to wonder "what comes next' and depending on your religion or lack of a religion that picture can change a lot. I agree with him that the fear of death is a waste of time, it's not like any amount of fear or worry will prevent it from happening. "Epicurus suggests that most people make the mistake of thinking that there will be something of us left to feel whatever happens to the dead body" (LH 25), I think that this is the idea of your soul going on to some kind of afterlife comes in to either help with the fear, or worsen it.
I suppose I could be classified as a modern day "epicure". I enjoy getting dressed up and going to a nice restaurant with nice food and good wine even though that's not even close to my daily life as a college student. I always make an effort to appreciate what I have and not take things for granted to avoid getting caught in the trap of longing for things I can't have. I agree with Epicurus' teaching about wanting for things that are attainable for the most part but I also don't think that wanting for "something more" than you have is a negative quality as long as you don't let it consume you. I feel that this is very easy to see in parents, I don't think I've ever met a parent who wants exactly what they had growing up for their children. Whether it's a nicer house, or a nicer neighborhood, or more education, or a better home life, or a better relationship with their parents. I don't know exactly where Epicurus would have drawn the line on what was out of reach and beginning to be longing, but to me none of those things are easily attainable and yet that's part of being a "good parent" is wanting what you never had for your children. So by my own logic I would be more of a modern epicure than I originally thought but I don't think that's a negative or uncommon.
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DeleteWas Epicurus right about fearing death, and the best way to live?
ReplyDeleteI feel the same way about not fearing death. Death is inevitable. No one alive knows what happens after death so that's probably why people fear it. I'm kind of curious what actually happens after death. There are people out there who say they want to go to heaven, but they don't want to die. Since there is no way of knowing, why waste time and energy fearing it. For the most part, the best way to live according to Epicurus sounds decent. I don't really agree that that's the best way to live because everyone has their own preference.
Have you experienced the loss of a loved one as a tragic "event" in your life?
When I was in the sixth grade, my uncle passed away. I didn't really know him all too much so I don't know if it was a tragic "event" in my life. However, I still found it tragic that I had a relative pass away since it was my first experience of death in the family. Even though it didn't really affect me, my parents were very sad and seeing that did affect me in some sort of way. My parents taught me even though it's a tragic thing when someone passes away, it can also be seen in a different way because they are now at peace.
I see that we share a similar since of timing. You had a nice thought there at the end. I guess in the end there is no pain and that might be life's final gift.
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Total Points: 20
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I have lost loved ones which I was close with and the one thought that has somewhat given me peace is knowing that they are finally at everlasting peace.
DeleteIn chapter four, The Garden Path, Epicurus speaks of death as just an ending to life and states that it is nothing to fear when you’ve given yourself enough time to come to terms with it. For his epitaph, he said, “I was not; I have been; I am not; I do not mind”. I have no clue what this means, but I feel his views on death were right. If you avoid thinking about the inevitable end, it will control your life and the choices you make, restricting your ability to life a full and happy life unburdened by fear. When a person lives life anticipating the end, they truly can make the most of and appreciate every moment to its fullest. Thinking about death, in many ways, is looked down upon due to the depressing nature of the subject, and some would even say that to think of death means there is something wrong with a person. Why is it that people think this way? When death is a part of life, is thinking about death not the same as thinking about life and thus a perfectly healthy train of thought to ride? Death is a topic that everyone should give thought to, not only to bypass the fear of it but to remind a person that they only have so much time on this earth and wasting it without enjoying life whenever possible is the truest form of looking a gift horse in the mouth and having your nose bitten.
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+1 comment on post by Simon Pergande
I think his epitaph states exactly what he meant about not being before and after your life. He's stating he wasn't alive, now he has been, someday he won't be, and that'll all be alright with him for he has lived a life he felt he enjoyed. He knows you should not fear death for it is uncontrollable and you won't mind once you can't exist.
DeleteIn my opinion, just because God has seen our actions and the results of them does not mean we do not have free will. This is because God is outside of time, therefore He has no influence on it. I understand that it is very difficult and arguably impossible to grasp such a viewpoint. It is hard for us as humans to think in terms that are not relative to time. This is because we have never experienced it. Everything we know and everything that is in our world is bound within the constraints of time, therefore we can not possibly understand a world not bound by time. My point is that because we are told God knows everything that has and will happen, we assume we have no choice or freewill in the matter because we perceive time as linear. This is not the case for God as to Him I would assume we have already chosen our path and he has already observed it. This, however does not mean the God does not have a plan for us and wants to guide us in a certain direction. It is still up to us to choose Him. I think the idea that God is not all powerful and somehow needs the human race to help him defeat evil is very narcissistic. We as humans need to find ways to feel more important than we are. We need some sense of control. I believe this is why some people feel as though God needs them. It makes them feel important and gives them some sense of control over what ultimately happens in the grand scheme of things. Having said that, I will say this is a very difficult topic to understand and I completely understand where Jason and Dr. Oliver were coming from and in some ways agree with some of the things that were said.
ReplyDeleteblog post ^ = 3 points
Deletereply to Matthew Pace= 1 point
reply to Kiera Riordan= 1 point
I have to agree with your statement. As humans we feel as though. everything we know in the universe needs us in some kind of way. We have to learn to think outside of ourselves.
DeleteI think that your post relies too heavily on your theological beliefs rather than trying to pose a logical or philosophical discussion. I appreciate your post and being able to see your religious views but your post doesn't pose an idea that isn't adapted into a denomination and it doesn't bring any further or original logic work. And you're also not pondering the philosophical nature of time, you're considering the nature of man vs god and instead of presenting a possibility for the function of time it just seems like you're saying "that's for God to understand and deal with himself, I don't have a place in that discussion".
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ReplyDeleteMany times in your life you think about death whether you are talking to your friends joking about ways you would most certainly not want to die and have to explain at the pearly gates orin Afghanistan when the truck ten feet in front of you gets blown in the air and you realize only three seconds away could that have been you. I definitely do not want to die even with all the bad and ridiculous that happens in life. Such is life and everyone goes through some level of it in their own life. You think about life after death and you do not want to miss out on all there is to come. You want to see your future generations and what they accomplish, or maybe you want to make sure you see your favorite hockey win the stanley cups once more in your lifetime. You think the world won't be able to revolve without you there and that is sorely a mistaken fact. Your kids will remember you fondly and maybe your grandkids if you are so lucky to meet them. After that, unless you've done something monumental or for generations to come to be proud of telling, you will be forgotten like dust in the wind. In all my years i never about it in the way i read. That if all those years and milennia before you were alive it did not matter, why do the years after it matter? Why be afraid to die if no one knew who you were before you were alive? Thinking this way changes things, but at the end of the day you couldn't have had something to miss or to enjoy without having been born and given that opportunity. It is an interesting way of thinking about life after death knowing, as i said it won't matter in one or maybe two generations down the line. Potentially no one will ever mutter your name again, but why does that affect how we feel about or fear that moment that we cannot change anyway?
+3 essay
+1 commented on Andrew Kroger
+1 commented on Matthew Pace
-I enjoyed the way you put this and the way of your thinking. We only get one life, and like you said our great grand kids will hardly remember us, then why are we so afraid of things in life? Someday it will all pass away from us, whether we like it or not, so why be afraid? Thoughts like this certainly make you think twice about life itself. Great job!
DeleteSomething I really loved from this week’s reading was the conversation that took place between Boethius and Lady Philosophy. Her speak of happiness and how it shouldn’t be relied on something that is so fleeting and easily changeable. All your material possessions are of no help to you when you die, but something that aids in carrying you to what’s next is faith. It flips your perspective. I also think it’s kind of ironic how he refers to Philosophy as a woman when women were often shut out and ignored in early Philosophy ages. Also, it’s so common to hear today, especially when going through something troubling, “God has a plan for you.” The thought of a person’s predestined purpose is supposed to be comforting, to think we are all here for a reason, even if it is unbeknownst to us or that everything happens for a reason. This does introduce a challenge to free will. If God already knows everything that is going to happen, under any circumstance, how are we truly free? This is baffling. It also evokes the question in me can there be free will if there’s eternal consequence? If we are truly promised to make our own decisions, but those decisions could be met with eternal damnation, is that truly a free decision? Can a decision be punished, but still be free? I suppose it can because if you are aware of said consequence, but you make it anyway then you are still freely making said decision. This is the conclusion I came to. It’s almost like we are this long movie that God has created and already watched before. He knows the ending, but we, the characters, don’t. It’s taking dramatic irony to the metaphysical realm. I like to think of it optimistically. We all have a purpose, things happen for a reason, and people choose to be kind even without the brooding cloud of eternal consequence.
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commented on: Kate Allen and Jasmyne Goodine
Section 10
DeleteI was also struck by Boethius’ words on happiness. It’s amazing to consider that while he sat in prison, enduring torture, and awaiting death he was able to express such profound thoughts on true happiness. He was able to reason that because he was not in control of the terrible situation he was in, he shouldn’t allow it to effect his state of mind. Instead he believed if he could change his attitude, he could be happy even from prison. This is such a powerful thought, it has made me want to pick up a copy of his final work, The Consolation of Philosophy.
I liked how you mentioned that God knows the ending and we as the characters do not know how each of our lives will end. I agree with what you said in your essay and that God has a specific path for each and everyone but we have to step up and follow into his direction.
DeleteDaniel Lopez, 1030-011
ReplyDeleteIf a "God grasps everything in an instant" and "sees past, present and future as one," how can a human still be said to possess free will (if that will is supposed to be able to change future events)?
As someone who was once Christian before, I have never actually given this question deep, considerable thought and went with the traditional view that the both can somehow co-exist simply because God gives us the tools and the paths to follow, but this does not necessarily mean that he forces us into those paths, regardless of the fact that he knows which path we will take. This seemed to me a reasonable answer, but the more I thought about this question, I honestly had my misgivings.
Say for instance, a human being creates a robot that is perfectly capable of behaving in an autonomous way similar to humans (that is, able to override orders it chooses not to follow as well) and places that robot in a maze it must navigate, all the while having a bird's-eye view of the paths it can choose. The human is fully aware of the programming that went into the robot and would not be surprised if it chose to follow one path over another or even just gave up on the task all together.
However, even if that same human interfered with and influenced the paths and the choices the robot could make, obviously, a human is not nearly capable of the same meddling a supposedly all-powerful and all-knowing God is. This coupled with the fact that God in many religious traditions does actively interfere with and influence his creation (even to the point of wiping out those that do not follow his orders), it does seem rather impossible to say with absolute conviction that God's will over creation somehow coexists with humanity's autonomy without being overridden.
Weekly essay 8/27/20 (3 pts)
Weekly essay 9/3/20 (3pts)
Weekly essay 9/10/20 (3 pts)
Weekly essay 9/17/20 (3 pts)
Total: 12 pts
I would have to agree, the idea of free will meaning we are in full control of our choices. The coexistence gods will or path over our life would cancel out our free will.
DeleteI agree with you on how you interperet predestinationism. Even if one knows the outcome of someone else's choice, you don't rob that individual of the choice.
DeleteBlake Hughes
ReplyDeleteSection 010
My Essay (+3)
Comments (+2): Matthew Pace & Matt Kolzow
Overall Points: 20
Weekly Question #4:
“Mark Twain said history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes. 114 Do you think time is linear, cyclical, both, neither...?”
I think this statement is extremely interesting, to think about. When I was in High School, my history teacher would always talk about how we “need to be mindful, and careful”, because history is known to repeat itself. Once she began discussing this, it soon made me have my own discussion, wondering about how exactly history could repeat itself, and what exactly in history would be repeated.
I think the idea that history fully repeats itself, is a bit too much. I just don’t see whatever is supposed to happen, being an exact replica, of what we know happened, previously. I suppose it isn’t exactly impossible to happen, but, to me, it just seems too farfetched. An example I think of, is with wars. In the future, it is possible we may have another war, and be able to compare it, to the first two. However, it isn’t going to be an exact copy of everything that happened in the others we experienced, beforehand.
While it is quite a scary thing to think of, with all of the horrible things we’ve faced in history, it does give me a bit of hope. While we may deal with a rhyme of what the world has faced before, I hope that we can recognize what’s going on, and possibly prevent anything worse from happening, or even on an equal level, that we would repeat.
I disagree because humans are prone to make the same mistakes multiple times. However, it is not always presented in the same format, but it is still similar in a way to what happened prior. For example, the holocaust that happened almost 100 years ago is currently happening to the Muslims in China.
DeleteHi Blake. I agree with you where you said that history repeating itself exactly is a bit too much. It is people in similar circumstances making similar decisions that keeps getting repeated, that is why Mark Twain said it was a rhyme. I think that your history teacher was right that we should be mindful and careful because we can learn lesson from the experiences of others and maybe they can guide use to make good choices in our life.
DeleteI do not believe that humans are able to comprehend a figure such as god. A perfect being that could do not a single thing wrong. There is also no way to prove or disprove the fact that there is a god so at most humans can only hope that there may be a higher power. Ive always sided on the side of science so I tend to only believe things that I could prove. So, it's more of a question of free will and therefore we cannot force people to believe or not to believe. To some people God might be the greatest and give God praise then an hour later they could also renounce God because they had something bad happen. So, my point is that it seems like to me that humans use the name of god as a scapegoat for when terrible things happen to them and praise God when something amazing happens. I personally think that they are mistaken divine power for just sheer luck and or coincidence.
ReplyDeleteSection 11
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replied to Daniel Lopez and Eli Feck - 2
total point so far (10 out of 20)
It is easy to believe things that you can prove with facts. I agree with you though that a lot of people can mistake faith for luck and coincidence. Having a feeling of guidance from faith can also help a lot of people besides when something good or bad happens.
DeleteCan you relate to Augustine's famous "ask". ofGod?
ReplyDeleteI feel as though we can all somewhat relate to Agustine's "ask" of God. I've definitely been in a place where I've asked God for something, but wasn't yet ready for the change that would come with it. I don't think it makes him any less "saintly". It just simply makes him human.
Even you thought that "moral evil" and the suffering it produces was a product of human free will, how would you account for so-called "natural evil" ?
I believe that in every situation there is some ounce of good, even if we can't see it at that exact moment. God never promised us a life that was all good. Sometimes God allows "evil" things to happen to us in order to gain our attention. Yes, we have the freewill to choose rather to. be good or bad, and yes we sometimes cause evil upon ourselves, but I believe some things just have to happen in order for us to become better.
-I agree with this, realizing that God has not promised blue skies and a breezy life for you, even if you are a follower of Him is a tough lesson to learn. But like you said, any kind of hardships can be used to help you on the long run. Great post, sir.
DeleteI agree with your statement to some degree because god doesn't need to answer anyones prayers and the evil in the world could be for a greater good.
DeleteI agree with you. I believe “Augustine’s famous “ask” of god” doesn’t make him any less saintly, but instead shows that he is human. I believe that since he wasn’t spiritually invested in Christianity at the time, it couldn’t make him any less of a saint. If he asked that after he committed to the path that led to his saint hood, then you could in my opinion make the argument that he is a hypocrite.
DeleteI completely agree with this, and Logan. It does show that he is human, just like us. Bumps in the road can also help you grow and be better off in the future.
DeleteWeekly Essay - 3 pts.
ReplyDeleteCommented On Randy's post -1 pt
Commented On Gavin Browns's post - 1 pt.
-If God grasps past present and future as one and sees past, present and future as one then how can humans still be said to have free will?
ReplyDeleteAs a Christian I have wondered these questions myself. The way I see it, God is not "in time" as we are, just like Boethius asserts. He is not limited to the time or space that we are in, but can come into any dimension that He chooses. In terms of us, we do have free will as humans, but since God is omniscient, He knows every choose that we can make and how that will affect our lives and the world. Taking into account every choice that every human makes this an unimaginably infinite amount of possibilities of reality. But this is precisely why God is described as ALL-knowing. We have the choice, but no choice we make will surprise God, He knows every "road" and where it leads/ends. Of course this explanation doesn't answer every single question about the subject, but it certainly helped me understand it better.
-What do you think of the Stoic's basic idea?
While I do not agree with or fully prescribe the Stoic's view of cutting out our emotions entirely in life, as I see them to give us our humanity. However, I do agree that it is important to be in control of our emotions, instead of getting rid of them altogether. The quote "life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react" has always held an important truth to me. Always have emotions, but do not let them rule you, make your decisions for you and define your reactions. I have a hard time believing that you will regret thinking first, feeling later in life.
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Reply to Tom P. (1 pt)
Reply to Jalen DeWalt (1 pt)
5 points
Now, I don't personally believe in God but your post reminded me of Bill Murray's argument in Groundhog Day in which he poses that maybe God didn't have anything to do with our free will but that he is omniscient because he's been around for so long that he just knows everything. This insists that time is cyclical but I can't rationalize any other understanding of God that can reconcile him/her/it being omniscient, all powerful, and/or all good.
DeleteHow do you define "time"? I like Thoreau's, myself, though I don't entirely know what it means: "Time is but the stream I go a'fishing in." And Immanuel Kant, we'll see, says it's a category of our understanding but not something objective "in the world" (except insofar as we are)... And Einstein said past, present, and future are "stubborn illusions"...
ReplyDeleteThe concept of time has always fascinated us humans. We can never truly understand time because we don’t have absolute control over it. For example, if time froze for two seconds would the world really change that much? Time is seen in many different forms such as: past, present, and future. Or as in how long something takes for this task to be completed. As a Muslim I believed that time in god’s hands. Our sense of time in my opinion is somewhat man made because before the first man developed the idea of time did it not exist. I think time began when god created the universe, but it doesn’t apply to him.
Does Aquinas's First Cause argument make sense to you? Or do you wonder what would have caused the First Cause? And, would that be a God (with the moral perfection and personal interest in humans and the universe that most religious people in the Judeo-Christian and Islamic traditions affirm)?
I completely agree with Aquinas’s first cause argument because if you trace the cause of anything it leads back to the origin. For every action there is a reaction, but I personally believe that it doesn’t apply to god because then he would not be perfect, and you would worship the one before him. It applies to us humans because we are the creation and not the creator. If human laws of nature applied to god he wouldn’t be god because our rules apply to him that means he wouldn’t be super natural.
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reply to blake and jaylen 2
*jalen
DeleteI think we should not think about death that much. I feel like worrying about it causes us to overthink the situation when we do not even know what happens after death. We might think we know what happens, but the truth is we do not. I think that we should live our lives not worrying about death and living it according to what we believe. When I was younger, I thought about dying a lot and it would scare me because I was never thinking about going to Heaven I was always thinking about Hell and how I never wanted to go to Hell. I realized that if I continue to think about it I would constantly be scared of death and I wouldn’t be able to live my life the way I wanted to, so I just stopped thinking about death and decided that when I die I’ll see what happens that’s really all I can do.
ReplyDeleteI think Americans are obsessed with Hell because it sounds like a place where no one wants to go. I think it is a place that they think is so bad that they want to avoid it at all cost. I also think that Americans are just always focused on the negative aspect of things because they feel like it is more entertaining. Heaven sounds like a place with no problems, a place to good to be true and we don’t think about it because there are no bad things associated with it but with Hell it is nothing but bad and if we are bad people we get sent there to burn for all eternity.
One of the things that makes us human is that we know about our own mortality. For some people knowing this can control their life which can easily lead into following a religion so you know you will be safe after death whether you know it or not.
DeleteWas Epicurus right about fearing death, and the best way to live?
ReplyDeleteI don’t think you should always be afraid of death, or at least not think about it all the time. It seems that most people have a blend of stoicism and epicureanism. Where people expect bad things to happen and make themselves believe that they will be able to get through it and survive. Some people think it gets to be too much and that suicide is always an option. But its never just that simple because most people are somewhat afraid of death and dying at some point in their life.
For stoicism, I feel like hope can sometimes be a good thing. Especially if you have a high chance to succeed on the thing you are doing. Expecting bad things to happen all the time sounds like a pretty dark way to live. This is kind of blunted with the fact that you will also be telling yourself that no matter what happens you will survive and continue living.
If Epicurus is correct that there is no afterlife, then I do believe that this is a good philosophy to have. If he is wrong on the other hand, then it would be a good idea to worry about death, if what you do in life actually affects what happens to you when you are dead.
DeleteI think that constantly thinking that something bad is going to happen to you is the sure fire way of having something bad happen. Why because now you put a lot more emphasis on the negative. Also there really isn't any downside to believing in God and the afterlife. Mostly because if the afterlife doesn't exist then there's nothing to worry about if your an Atheist, but if God does exist, well good luck.
DeleteI definitely agree with the fact that having hope can be a good thing, but I don't think being stoic is about being hopeful, but rather being indifferent. You take yourself out of situations you can't control, and while there are positives like not worrying, there are also negatives because you start becoming detached from the people you're around.
DeleteI agree with you 100 percent. People need to stop thinking of death so much and just forget about it and that leads to Stoicism but my thinking is what if we didn't exist in the world and don't care about does feeling. What if the cosmos did exist would it b just a black board, nothing.
Delete“Is there a danger of becoming cold and heartless, if you become a Stoic?”
ReplyDeleteWhile I do understand how stoics can be perceived as cold and heartless, I believe stoicism doesn’t directly lead to a calloused unfeeling individual. Stoicism teaches an individual how to control their emotions and there reactions, but it doesn’t make them unempathetic. If you read any of Marcus Aurelius’s writings, you see that he is companionate, kind, and deeply moral: however, he values reason over emotion and he bases his decisions on logic and morals even when it pains him personally. In Marcus Aurelius you see plainly that stoicism doesn’t mean unfeeling; however, it does mean using your reason to control your feelings even at times when you would rather do the opposite. For example: He admires the convictions of Christians and he pities them, but because they are enemies of Rome he feels that it is his duty to enforce the laws of Rome even though his writings show that it troubles him to do so.
Jalen Dewalt, +1
DeleteDouglas Hauser, +1
DeleteTotal for this week is 5 points
Section 10
DeleteI definitely agree with you that to be a Stoic doesn’t require one to be cold and heartless. It seems ideal to not allow yourself to get upset over things outside of your control. To me it seems it would allow a person to put more of their effort into changing what they possibly can control because they won’t be wasting their time mourning what is inevitable. Perhaps this could even result in somebody being more empathetic, because they can care more about finding things they can change. If more people were like that, society would be a better place.
I totally agree with you that stoicism teaches an individual how to control their emotions and their reactions. Stoicism is actually a helpful thing to practice because it can help us overcome adversity and hard times more easily and help us with maintaining a leadership mindset i.e. you never play the victim and remain in control over that which is within your control.
DeleteMy post deleted instead of publishing so here we go again. If it ends up publishing after I've posted this then... c'est la vie and laissez les bon temps rouler, I guess.
ReplyDeleteWeekly essay (section 12):
How do you define "time"? I like Thoreau's, myself, though I don't entirely know what it means: "Time is but the stream I go a'fishing in." And Immanuel Kant, we'll see, says it's a category of our understanding but not something objective "in the world" (except insofar as we are)... And Einstein said past, present, and future are "stubborn illusions"...
I love Thoreau's explanation of time because it reminds me of the quote by Heraclitus of Ephesus, "No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it is not the same river and he's not the same man". I think that a river is the perfect metaphor for time because it's not something that we have control of, we can only step into it, wade in it, and be taken for a journey along the stream. It changes us, moves us, makes us different people than who we were when we first stepped into the stream and it's always changing but we are not powerful enough to stop it. If you believe in reincarnation like I do, you step into the stream multiple times, each time is going to be completely different and you are never the same. I think that the river explains time only so far as being a metaphor for time's affect on our experience of life. I think that the function of time is more in line with the Greek concept of aether which is an all encompassing substance that influences us which we do not influence, completely invisible and you can't test it though you can try to measure and quantify it without genuinely and officially being able to understand or control it with anymore authority than any deity that humans believe in. We'll either learn it's complete existence and influence when we're dead or we won't.
(section 12)
Deletepoints as of last week, 15
weekly essay post above, comment on Carter Stephens' post, comment on Gavin Brown's post.
Total points - 20
I really like the quote you chose to answer this question with. It really exemplifies how time is ever moving and uncontrollable.
DeleteSection 10
ReplyDeleteI do think Mark Twain was right about the mistake we all make to confuse feeling for thinking. People have a strong tendency to go with their gut reaction rather than logic supported by facts. I believe Ronald Reagan was aware of this phenomenon when he twice referenced the legend that claimed the founding fathers didn’t sign the Declaration of Independence until they were visited by an inspirational angel. Reagan spoke about this legend as if it were fact corroborated by Thomas Jefferson. I don’t actually think that Reagan believed it when he said it, instead I think he knew that others would believe it because it felt good to do so. I think he thought that good feeling would manipulate people into supporting him, a tactic all too common among politicians.
Today’s discussion on Augustine and the Manicheaens’ explanation for how a powerful God can exist with such vast human suffering present in the world really intrigued me. I definitely understand and agree with this issue being something that causes people to stop believing in God at all. Augustine believed human suffering was a consequence of God giving man free will. This of course, as we discussed, doesn’t address why God would allow natural evils to occur. One of the first things that came to mind for me, though, was the unfortunate prevalence of people who currently use human suffering from natural evils as a reason TO believe there is a God. Evangelical Christians often attribute the occurrence of terrible natural disasters to the work of God punishing humans for our sins. I believe this perspective to be particularly harmful to humanity and am thankful it’s not more mainstream.
I really like how you addressed multiple prompts and how you tied all of them in with an overarching theme. Also I like the point you made about how people use natural evils to justify God as if God would care that people are doing what they like while minding their business.
DeleteSection 10
DeleteMain post 9/17= 3 points
Commented on Alexa Kruszewski’s post 9/17= 1 point
Commented on Logan Petersen’s post 9/17= 1 point
Grand Semester Total= 20 points
KAG | Section 10
ReplyDeleteRegarding the topic of Hope and Stoicism that was introduced by Jason Tuesday, there is a difference between wishful thinking and hopefulness. However before I discuss that difference, I want to establish the philosophy of Stoicism. Stoicism is a method of living where you decide how much passion and energy you provide to a situation/event in life that you encounter or witness. The original purpose of Stoicism is to prevent people from becoming dissatisfied with life by choosing not to give effort to an unnecessary and/or unchangeable cause. Now with that said, wishful thinking is wanting something to happen when there isn’t evidence that would support your belief that something has the potential to occur. Hopefulness is wanting something to happen when there is evidence that would support your belief that something has the potential to occur.
KAG | Section 10
DeleteThursday: posted my Weekly Essay (3 points)
Thursday: Commented on Simon Pergande's post (1 points)
Total points this week: 4 points
Overall points this semester: 16
“History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme,” Mark Twain. I could not have ever found a truer quote. A lot of the times people feel as though they live in unprecedented and uniquely harsher times. Everyone knows someone that thinks that the world is actually getting worse and that we are heading back instead of going forward, and at times I know it can feel that way. But we Know that’s not the case: child mortality is going down, average lifespan is going up, literacy is going up, and so is GDP per capita. By all the tools that we use to measure quality of life, they are all going up. So, why do we feel as though so many things are going wrong, well because humans really want to believe that they aren’t privileged and will create adversity from the smallest things. Even though we have known that generations and the hate that older generations have for the younger and vice versa have been going on for literal thousands of years. With all the things that have been happening since 2016 it can feel like everything is going to heck, but you just have to remember that most of this is caused by population growth, just like major crisis in the past. And no, it’s not that we don’t have enough resources for everyone (we have more than enough) it’s just that with political boundaries, religions, and corruption these resources don’t get shared equally so everyone can get a slice of the pie. Usually when people see that the share of resources is getting smaller the people with money through corruption ensure that they have more than enough.
ReplyDeletereply to Anna Johnson and Douglas +2
DeleteWas Epicurus right about fearing death, and the best way to live?
ReplyDeleteI 100% believe so. I mean death is the only thing that makes all people equal right, no matter how rich or how poor, how happy or how sad, how good or how evil, as far as my knowledge goes, all living beings die. And because it happens to ALL of us, I always wondered why it's seen as so shocking or unnatural. Not to say that you can't grieve over death or anything, I'm not heartless, or Stoic if you will, but people do everything in their power to avoid death, but for what. What can you fulfill if you don't die, that you can't fulfill now. Also, it begs the question, if you're religious and the afterlife is all good and great as long as you're a good and great person, why try so hard to avoid the only gateway into the afterlife. Now I'm not condoning suicide or anything, but just as a rule of thumb, why artificially prolong a life, if I just fulfill everything I want in life now.
Was Epicurus right not to worry about an afterlife?
I touched on it above a little bit, but like what can you do. Depending on your beliefs, you know what you need to do to get into the afterlife you want, so why are you so anxious about it. Also, he's kind of on to something, gods are celestial beings far beyond our comprehension, under our logic, they have literally the entire universe under their fingertips, why worry about a single living creature.
Was Seneca right, are most people's lives long enough? (OR would they be, if people stopped wasting so much time?):
Of course, at this point people love bragging about how much they procrastinate. At least I know a lot of people like that, and I'm no real exception. I've had stuff on my to-do lists for years, and it's always "oh when I get the time" but yesterday, I spent maybe like 6 hours watching videos, doing absolutely nothing. So I mean if I spend 6 hours a day doing nothing, a 1/4th of my day and comparatively a 1/4th of my life, probably more than that considering sleep is needed, complaining about how little time i have, I'll never get anything done. And when I'm old and decrepit and finally "have the time" then it'll be far too late.
Section 12
Epicurus Essay (+3)
DeleteReplied to Kate Allen (+1)
Replied to Douglas Hauser (+1)
Total this week: 5/5
Total with all: 20/20
I totally agree with what you said about people trying to avoid death. They should just realize that death is the end of their chapter in life and they should have managed to take care of themselves better while alive or at least tried to while being alive.
DeleteI agree with your view point of death. The way that I see it is that we can not determine the dates on our gravestone. All we can decide is what we do with the time in-between the dates.
DeleteYes, I believe Epicurus was right about the fear of the death in many was to live because we do not know what death feels like or how do we express death. Like many people are not afraid to die because it is irrelevant for them. For me I have seen people get killed, hurt, or hit by a train before. I still afraid of dying. I rather live than die of my own suffering. I was eight-month-old when my father has died.
ReplyDeleteI do not think that Augustine is less saintly in my eyes. I wish he can interpret it differently because Christian and Catholic are the same religions in the world. I am Catholic, I go church with my mom. She goes to church every Sunday, early in the morning but I don’t like early morning Sunday and I am glad that there is a evening or afternoon church, but some people don’t go church or believe in God plus pray. They do not that they pray. They just do it.
This is a real tuff question to ask about “moral-evil” then “natural-evil” such as earthquakes, tornado, floods, diseases, etc. We must have evil in the world, and we must have natural-evil as well because you need to understand the culture then free will. What do other cultures of freedom means to them? For me I think their different definition of what free will or freedom is and today I am not free. Free will or freedom is like saying I can do whatever I want in the world but no you cannot. Another question is It okay to run around naked in America. Your consequences would lead to your actions and you must pay the price. Going back to Plato, nobody is perfect, everyone makes a mistake. Good people can be bad people and bad people can be good people.
Autumn Daniel
ReplyDeleteWeekly Essay #4
Section 010
I think the idea of Free will is somewhat an illusion. We can consciously choose what were going to say within a moment, and make choices for ourselves as we develop in life- but where we start and who we are has so many outside factors. The fact that we were put onto the planet in a specific era, a specific country, with specific uncontrollable physical features and mental processes- is none of our own choices. You wouldn’t even be here if your parents didn’t accidentally or purposely had a baby. You start somewhere and despite moving and traveling, you always soak up what’s around you. The life of a wealthy celebrity in California will be completely different than the life of an orphan in Germany. Neither of those people chose what lifestyle they were born into. That’s just an example of the choices we were unable to make from an early age (and before we were born). Even as students go to school, choose their major, who they’re going to be friends with, etc… the reason for being in school isn’t theirs. College is pretty heavily pushed as the most socially acceptable path after highschool by the majority. Our society is built with all these laid out “rules” and stereotypes that didn’t exist at one point, but are embedded unconsciously. Who we were around in highschool, our environment, our family life all unconsciously determined what kind of lifestyle we were going to create. All of our mindsets and different perceptions of the world are formed around our environment and not necessarily because we always wanted to be that way. It’s interesting but frightening to think about how much of our lives we really choose ourselves, uninfluenced.
I like how you worded your essay and said tha "Free will is somewhat of an illusion."
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ReplyDeleteEssay on Epicureanism and Stoicism posted 9/14 3 points
Comment on Dr. Oliver's mowing posted 9/17 1 point
Comment on Simon Pergande's post on death 9/15 1 point
Total weekly points 5
Accumulated points 27
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ReplyDeleteIf one believes in a"moral evil", one does not need to believe in a "natural evil". If one accepts a moral framework that accepts the idea of evil as a result of human free will, would it not be impossible to accuse a natural disaster as something evil on the basis of it not having free will.
ReplyDeletePerhaps the more interesting discussion would be how one could fit context of one's life within a structure with a belief in absolute evil. It is undeniable that different situations within one's life bring moral ambiguity to any action. For example, if someone grows up in an impoverished area and wants to try and help support a family, one could be forced to sell harmfull drugs to other people. While this action is inhernetly what many would consider evil (as this person would be directly responsible for enabling others to harm themselves, although one could say that they have no responsibility for other's descisiions to buy drugs, but from a broad societal standpoint, it is a common stance to say dealing drugs is evil), the need to support a family in an area with very few options to get money makes it so that this "evil" action has driving factors that forced the individual into doing such actions. What would one assaign as the "evil" in this situation? I would argue that the burdan of evil would lie on those responsible for perpetuating the system that made it nessecary for people to be forced into those situations. For example, our current capitalist system nessecitates that people must be unemployed, even though we have no system to support those who are unable to work simply by the nature of the system.
Do you feel better about growing old and eventually dying, after reflecting on Cicero's ideas? 30
ReplyDeleteI do feel better about growing old and eventually dying. I know that my time being on earth has changed me into the person I will become which is successful in the end of my time. I also know that growing old, you deal with dementia, loss of hearing, arthritis and many more health complications as becoming old. Ciero said "We should recognize that decline in old age not make life unbearable". I absolutely agree that being unbearable as you age into being older, is that you want to do less such as daily and simple tasks and that is totally normal.
When I was working back home at my retirement job, I saw that the older men and woman would be cruising down the hallways with their walkers, scooters, walking with their friends. I used to be a server for the night shift and every night I would have to remember drink orders and offer them extra naps, silverware, etc. I loved interacting with my elderly residents at work because they would tell me stories about how life was back in their time. They would also give advice from experience that I had questions about and they would just be carefree.
I had a very close connection with a resident named Dorothy. She would make me smile and laugh when she used to tell me jokes at the dinner table. I became her best friend before she started to decline in her near death. I tried my best to make her days better before I started noticing her changing in behavior, eating habits, not much interaction with me during dinner time. I became very sad but I had to stay positive as much as possible because I could not let her see me down. As her time decreased she was getting worse day by day, I would stop and talk to her but she was on a oxygen tank and she was on shortness of breath.
I would pray for her every night to become better but God had other plans for her. I even met her daughter and connected with her and told her that her mother was my best friend and she was the most sweetest woman ever. Her daughter and I would talk everyday until it the day that my best friend had passed. When I received the news that she had passed, I was washing dishes. I cried and held her heartless body and cold hands and I was just a wreck on the inside. I felt that her time was needed and God had a more fulfilling place for her into the gates of Heaven.
(I know this might be all over the place but I really tried my best with this and I connected a true experience as well.)
Section 12
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I do feel better growing old and eventually dying too! I feel like it is better to die when we grow old, rather than bearing all the bodily pains. I also read your experience, and that made me sad, but no one is immortal.
DeleteIs there a danger of becoming cold and heartless, if you become a Stoic?
ReplyDeleteStoic people are resilient which is good. Another tendency is that they don't show emotions, and it doesn't make them cold or heartless.Yes, this tendency may work against them in social situations, and may help them in catastrophic situations. I had a stoic friend in high school and i can tell that Stoics don't care about other people's feelings. This can be downside in many situations. However, it is good to never be too emotionally involved with somebody. Even people that show feelings or care about other people's feelings can be bullies.
Is the stoic person emotionally detached?
Yes. Stoic people run the risk of being emotionally isolated. Humans are social brings and we thrive on affection and love, and not in complete isolation. So the stoic person will have problems in love and the stoic person wants it that way because stoicism is a lifestyle, it's a choice. As long as the stoic person, finds social support, they can socially survive.
I spent a lot of my time in high school being a stoic, not because I wanted to, but more for protection. It kept me from being taken advantage of. It helped me a lot, but I also did not have many friends because of my behavior.
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How do you define "time"? I like Thoreau's, myself, though I don't entirely know what it means: "Time is but the stream I go fishing in." And Immanuel Kant, we'll see, says it's a category of our understanding but not something objective "in the world" (except insofar as we are)... And Einstein said past, present, and future are "stubborn illusions"...
ReplyDeleteI define Time as a concept of reality that we universally agree to follow . The measurement of time originally began before 1500 B.C. But for a period of time the measurement of time was not set up universally. The Egyptians measured time but now in the same aspect as the current measurements that we have now. Instead it was much simpler and was just a day and night system. The way that I view time is best exemplified in a quote by Marina Abramovic, “Time only exists when we think about the past and the future, Time doesn't exist in the present here and now.” I don't personally enjoy using a system of time to decide when I do things, I enjoy just going with the flow of things and using more of the system the egyptians used. Time really does not have a start of an end and it does not have any validity behind the system. We base it off the rotation of the earth in position with the sun.
I kind of just go with the flow sometimes too. Sometimes I end up being late for things though haha.
DeleteDo humans really have an idea of God, that is, an idea of a perfect being that they are capable of understanding with their imperfect and finite intelligence? And if somehow they do, does that prove anything?
ReplyDeleteSec 10
I don't think that our minds will be able to fully understand the idea of god. All we can do is guess and imagine what a god would be like. We have no evidence what so ever of their being a god. All people have is faith and belief. For a lot of people, god is a way of making sense of the Earth and why we are here. People forget that there is much more than us and the planet that we live on. If god created Earth and humans, than he had to of created everything else. If we have not come to fully understand our entire universe, then how are we even able to fully understand the idea of a supernatural higher being? If we were to meet this said being, I think we would be extremely confused by its presence. This being would be much more than the creator of our planet.
Even if we were able to fully understand the idea of a higher being, I still do not think that it proves anything. For anything to be proven it must be seen. It will remain this way until we actual see this higher being. And even when this higher being is seen it still wouldn't be 100% what we as humans came up with in their minds to make sense of the idea. As much as I would love to understand the idea of a god, I do not think it will happen in my life time or several generations to come life times. Who knows? Maybe I am wrong.
I 100% agree to what your are saying.
Delete"Mark Twain said history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes. 114 Do you think time is linear, cyclical, both, neither...?"
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with Mark Twain. We always hear, "study your history or be doomed to repeat it", and while I agree with that, I don't think it needs to be taken literally. For example, I don't think we will see 1:1 repeat of the Nazi party and what they did in the early 1900s. But it is entirely possible (and has occurred), to see copycats or people attempting to replicate them. Just like we witnessed Fidel Castro in the 50s/60s, we see dictators today. I don't think history is cyclical. I do think, however, that there are many coincidences throughout history. Like the quote I mentioned earlier, it's imperative to study and know history. We can learn a great deal from it, whether it be good or bad. Without recognizing and studying history, we will inevitably make the same mistakes as our ancestors. All of that to say, time doesn't repeat itself. As Mark Twain suggests, it does rhyme. And because of that, it's important to study it to prevent some of these "bad" rhymes.
Do humans really have an idea of God, that is, an idea of a perfect being that they are capable of understanding with their imperfect and finite intelligence? And if somehow, they do, does that prove anything?
ReplyDeleteFrom my understanding, I think that humans don’t have an idea of God. First, I feel like a God can’t be another human. Because if so than why not us. Also, I think that we don’t have an idea of a perfect being. We might have something in our minds and if you think about it everyone has their own image in the minds like my idea of a god might be completely different than all the people around me. I think this also shows that we don’t have an idea of a god because we all have different ideas of him and that shows that we don’t have an idea of a perfect being.
Mohap
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ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteWas Mark Twain right about "the mistake we all make"?
"We all do no end of feeling and we mistake it for thinking. It is held in reverence. Some think it the voice of God."
Considering Mark Twain is an author I found it odd for him to take this perspective on logic vs. emotion. Maybe because his life ended up so full of turmoil he adopted this stance later on?
But back to my personal stance- I don't think I can outright 100% agree or disagree, but I do think he has a point- if that makes sense. I think it's important to have a balance between logic and emotion. Thought without emotion doesn't really have any purpose or reason to it, but emotion without logic is the same. So I think Twain does have something to say when people overvalue pure emotion- but in regards to the arts I don't really find this statement to have much meaning. It just feels very embittered.
My thoughts on this more come from an animators perspective, where feeling and representing emotion is paramount to most things you make. It requires a use of logic in storytelling (focusing the conflict on things that warrant discussion, and aren't drama for dramas sake), but also without strong, clear emotions will be ignored. If you can't make the audience feel the pain the character is going through then they won't be able to internalize what you have to say as well.
Idk I find this question very funny cause I did solely pick it cause I wanted the opportunity to bring of Twains work - "The Mysterious Stranger" and a claymation movie discussing it "The Adventures of Mark Twain".
The Mysterious Stranger (there is a reinterpretation of the tale in the movie, but luckily they focus on the scenes I'm talking about) focuses on the character Satan- an angel related to the more well-known Satan. Basic idea of the story just focuses on how they interact with the humans of a nearby town and it implied at least to me the ruin when you have no emotion or morals (Poor summary) But I bring it up because of the scene in which satan along with 3 children, construct a small clay village of people and satan brings them to life. Satan over the course of the story talks at length about how disgusted he is with humankind and he kills the newly created people in an instant- like we would a fly. Idk it feels really strange that he would write that story and believe that. Though mayhaps it proves it in that a god is unfeeling and unwavering in this story- as he believes in that statement.
“Was Wittgenstein right about death?”
ReplyDeleteI strongly agree with Wittgenstein on his view of death and how it is “not an event in life.” It is in fact, “the removal of the possibility of experience” in our lives and potential futures. This helps me tremendously on the topic of fearing death and what is the “best and most peaceful” way to pass on from life. I hear the question, “would you rather know when you die or how you die.” After looking at this chapter and the ideas of Wittgenstein and Epicurus, I can agree with the idea that death is and should be nothing to us. I saw this because it is not a part of our life because I believe that life is what we make and control of it and whenever death comes upon a person, it is at that moment in which a person has no control or say in their future because there is no such thing as “future” anymore. I do believe Wittgenstein is right about death with the help of Epicurus ideas because Epicurus talks about how we do not need to have any type of worry about death because we do not “experience death ourselves.” I see that he is trying to say we as people, are life. Death does not make people or who someone is. Death is what ends people and that is it. Death does not affect us because it is not a part of us. In conclusion I do strongly agree with Wittgenstein because he takes something that we see as a “Big Event” in life to be the equivalent of nothing and it has no effect on humanity so it should not be something that should be feared. Instead, we should follow Epicurus’s thinking and make the best of our life while we still have the opportunity to find happiness.
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-Is Dewey right, do we often "get over" philosophical problems rather than "solve" them?
ReplyDeleteI must agree with Dewey on this topic. Most philosophical problems do not have a clean-cut solution. When thoughts get clouded and jumbled, people tend to get frustrated. Most of the time people do not want to waste time with the struggle of going back and forth with a problem, so rather than solve it, it gets pushed to the side. It’s almost comparable to the argument between atheists and Christians debating how the world began. Christians say God created it. Atheists tend to not have one answer, but it comes down to some sort of energy release. Atheists could always argue “where did God come from?” Christians could argue “where did the energy come from?” Due to there being no solid answer from either side, that part of the argument tends to go ignored rather than get solved.
-Was Epicurus right about fearing death, and the best way to live? 23
I also agree with Epicurus on death. Death should not be a scary thought to anyone in my opinion. It’s just the inevitable. If you constantly dwell on the idea of death, you’ll be miserable. Living in fear of anything, most can agree, is a bad thing. Yet it’s normal to constantly fear something no one can escape. Instead, enjoy life as it is. He thought life should be having a very simple lifestyle, be kind to others, and be surrounded by friends (pg 23). I can’t imagine that many people disagree with that fundamentally. Yes, for most, there is more to it than that, but at the bare minimum, that is what most people want. He is right in the idea that yearning for success and riches will not do anything but leave you unsatisfied if you cannot achieve them