YOU DO NOT HAVE TO ANSWER ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS, or indeed any of them. They're here to prompt your own reflections. If you can access this without my questions, feel free.
Questions pertaining to the assigned reading will normally be posted prior to each class.That's where you should always share your thoughts, in the comments space below each day's post (at least three relevant comments/questions/observations per class, so you can shade the whole diamond on the scorecard when you come to class, and thus receive full participation credit for that date... more than that gets you extra credit). You can also respond to your own questions(s) or your classmates' posted comments. Respond not merely with the authors' textual statements but also with your own thoughts & reflections.) 25 exam questions will pertain to the required texts. Additional bonus questions pertaining to the recommended texts will also appear.
1. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
- "Philosopher" means what? Philosophy was what, in ancient Athens? (Introduction)
- What did Camus say is the one truly serious philosophical problem? Do you agree?
- What did Marcus Aurelius need, at dawn, to remind himself of? (And ask me about his morning mantra, which I daily remind myself of. UPDATE: Turns out it wasn't Marcus, but a 19th century American named Elbert Hubbard, whose morning mantra* has been falsely attributed to the Stoic emperor.)
- What was the first question young Needleman experienced? Have you experienced it? Do you think it is a good question? How do you answer it?
- What kinds of questions most interested Socrates?
- The Socratic dialogues consisted of what kinds of conversations? Do you enjoy participating in such conversations?
- What did Socrates say about the unexamined life? What corollaries does Weiner propose? Do you think Socrates was wrong?
SOCRATES: Ought we to enquire into the truth of this, Euthyphro, or simply to accept the mere statement on our own authority and that of others? What do you say?
EUTHYPHRO: We should enquire; and I believe that the statement will stand the test of enquiry.
SOCRATES: We shall know better, my good friend, in a little while. The point which I should first wish to understand is whether the pious or holy is beloved by the gods because it is holy, or holy because it is beloved of the gods.
EUTHYPHRO: I do not understand your meaning, Socrates.
SOCRATES: I will endeavour to explain...
...Having thus brought his subject to a conclusion, Socrates proposes to bathe himself, in order not to trouble others to wash his dead body. Crito thereupon asks if he has any commands to give, and especially how he would be buried, to which he, with his usual cheerfulness, makes answer, "Just as you please, if only you can catch me;" and then, smiling, he reminds them that after death he shall be no longer with them, and begs the others of the party to be sureties to Crito for his absence from the body, as they had been before bound for his presence before his judges.
After he had bathed, and taken leave of his children and the women of his family the officer of the Eleven comes in to intimate to him that it is now time to drink the poison. Crito urges a little delay, as the sun had not yet set; but Socrates refuses to make himself ridiculous by showing such a fondness for life. The man who is to administer the poison is therefore sent for; and on his holding out the cup, Socrates, neither trembling nor changing color or countenance at all, but, as he was wont, looking steadfastly at the man, asked if he might make a libation to any one; and being told that no more poison than enough had been mixed, he simply prayed that his departure from this to another world might be happy, and then drank off the poison, readily and calmly. His friends, who had hitherto with difficulty restrained themselves, could no longer control the outward expressions of grief, to which Socrates said, "What are you doing, my friends? I, for this reason, chiefly, sent away the women, that they might not commit any folly of this kind; for I have heard that it is right to die with good omens. Be quiet, therefore, and bear up."
When he had walked about for a while his legs began to grow heavy, so he lay down on his back; and his body, from the feet upward, gradually grew cold and stiff. His last words were, "Crito, we owe a cock to Æsculapius; pay it, therefore, and do not neglect it."
"This," concludes Phædo, "was the end of our friend—a man, as we may say, the best of all his time, that we have known, and, moreover, the most wise and just." Phaedo
Phaedo audio...
*"When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -Elbert Hubbard, probably... and not Marcus Aurelius, though the Internet seems to think otherwise. Don't confuse him with looney L. Ron...
- What's one of the great unexplained wonders of human history?
- Do you agree that we cannot understand ourselves if we do not understand others?
- What was Descartes's "still pertinent" conclusion?
- Why did the Buddha think speculation about ultimate reality was fruitless?
- What aspects of western thought have most influenced global philosophy?
- What do Africans not have, according to Kwame Appiah?
I should have said Yes! The word is meliorism (closely related, in my philosophy as in WJ's, to possibility):
"...there are unhappy men who think the salvation of the world impossible. Theirs is the doctrine known as pessimism.
Optimism in turn would be the doctrine that thinks the world's salvation inevitable.
Midway between the two there stands what may be called the doctrine of meliorism, tho it has hitherto figured less as a doctrine than as an attitude in human affairs. Optimism has always been the regnant DOCTRINE in european philosophy. Pessimism was only recently introduced by Schopenhauer and counts few systematic defenders as yet. Meliorism treats salvation as neither inevitable nor impossible. It treats it as a possibility, which becomes more and more of a probability the more numerous the actual conditions of salvation become.
It is clear that pragmatism must incline towards meliorism..." Pragmatism by William James
Section #3
ReplyDeleteMy thoughts and questions:
1: Why is it that the beginning of philosophy with Socrates and more specifically Plato end up supporting the idea of totalitarianism when it’s a persons own perspective and lived experiences that shape their lives and the community around them? Did they not understand this when having conversations?
2: Socrates question of what makes different actions moral or immoral depending on the circumstances placed, to me, questions the legitimacy of common laws or practices put in place by government and religion. I think I would understand why he was viewed as a threat by those who didn’t understand his motivations.
3: Is it ok to live in the blissful ignorance of your perception of the world? I understand that sometimes it is easier for many to accept what they know to be true rather than to find real truth, and I’m not sure if it is always a bad thing.
Section #1
DeleteI love your third question, and I'm curious what our peers think. Personally, I've found that I'm in a generally more positive mood when I avoid the news, which makes avoiding it ever so tempting.
However, I can imagine how certain types of ignorance can ultimately be perilous to a society, especially when it begins to affect people other than yourself. Same vibes as: "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out..."
Section 1
DeleteI am also very much interested by the third question because as much as we encourage everyone to seek the truth of the world and not remain in blissful ignorance is it wise for certain people to be aware of the truth such as children who are regularly told about Santa clause and his infamous naughty list. So do we burst their bubble at that young age and remove the room for imagination and load them with stark realities of this world? I am just trying to expiate further on these questions
Section #1
ReplyDelete-Do you agree that we cannot understand ourselves if we do not understand others? I believe in the opposite. We can't understand others if we do not understand ourselves.
-Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave? Yes, I think most are... not because we can't get out, but because we choose to stay in. Maybe because of the convenience, or maybe, like Christopher said, because we have grown used to our blissfully ignorant perception of the world.
Question:
Why would such a great thinker like Socrates fail to see that his model of an ideal government would be so tyrannical, immoral, and indifferent to people's rights and needs as humans?
Section #1
DeleteI find your question interesting. Yes, inherently, the idea of philosophers ruling the world while weeding out the unwilling philosophers by making them soldiers or workers seems to be bordering on eugenics in a sense, I believe that this isn't meant to be tyrannical. I think Socrates and Plato specifically were afraid of what an uneducated group of people can do if they were given the power to make decisions in society and their government without having the true wisdom to make said decisions. If someone is not willing to be wise by encompassing all perspectives and truly understanding themselves and their people, then it would be troublesome seeing them influence society through a wrongful means. It reminds me of how the current administration is being handled. Ignorance is one of humanity's hugest flaws. Many people voted for our current president under the notion of "Oh, well he wouldn't be crazy enough to go against our Constitutional rights or completely ignore our law." Then, when these events actually do take place, many people turn a blind eye and just acknowledge the supposed "good" that's been done for them.
Lecture #1
ReplyDeleteA Little History of Philosophy
2.) The cave story is connected to Plato’s Theory of Forms. I do believe some people are stuck in a cave. Not only with deep thinking, but they are just stuck in their ways in general. Some people are stuck into a routine of believing what they want, and no shaking, pulling, or tugging will help change their mind. However, some people—like the man who broke free—will successfully escape the cave. With escaping this cave, they are allowed to break years of routine that was supposed to be passed down to them.
3.) Socrates told his students that his inner voice told him to keep questioning everything. I do believe we have inner voices, but I also believe they can be skewed by what we want, or we sometimes mistake our thoughts for our inner voice. For example, if I want pizza, then my thoughts will begin to want pizza too. As a result, my brain will be talking to be, but I don’t think that is my inner voice talking.
How the World Thinks
2.) I do agree we can’t understand ourselves if we can’t understand others. If we can see where another person is coming from, how or why they act, or if we even acknowledge it a tiny bit, we can better understand ourselves. If we do not understand other people, I think it makes our actions selfish—this can be changed if we change our way of thinking.
Section #1
ReplyDeleteSocrates Express:
3. What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal?
Socrates said that his inner voice only warned him not to do things, never told him to do things. As to whether it is literal or not, I would pose the reverse question, does it even matter? Does it matter to us if he heard voices in his head or was simply expressing an innate feeling of wrongness using words his fellow Athenians could understand (as he was talking about the voice of an inner, personal god) or if something was actually speaking inside of his brain? We will never live in his body, we will never know his complete truth of the matter. And even if we were to time travel and ask him, I doubt he'd give a straight answer.
However, because of this voice, we have this current understanding of philosophy. (If you wanted to write a historical science fiction, it would be easy to say that aliens compelled him to do so by guiding him according to laws we don't know so that plots could spiral and they could achieve some end goal). But is searching for the itch in his brain, if it was real or imagined or a sliver of soul, searching for Wisdom or just Intelligence? It seems to me that this is bit of knowledge that will change nothing and only disappoint and distract from the real matter. It happened, many things could have caused it, but what are we going to do about it? What are we going to do with his style of gadflying about? Do we emulate or turn away from? Is a life spent asking questions of others inherently more satisfying than coming up with and asking the questions of oneself?
Weiner:
4) What was the first question young Needleman experienced? Have you experienced it? Do you think it is a good question? How do you answer it?
Needleman's first experienced question was "who created God?" I have few childhood memories, and if I asked this question, I have since forgotten its answer. As for if it is a good question-- it certainly is a leading one. It starts from an assumption, many actually: God exists. Everything that exists didn't at some point and was created by something else. This question doesn't permit something to just exist in the endlessness of space and time, it insists on a beginning (and thereby suggests also an end).
I'm not sure I like that. Since 'like' is innately tied to 'good' as opinions (why? probably because I'm the one making the definitions and it seemed right at the time) I'm not sure I can call it a good question. However, there are some things about this question I do in fact like. It is big. It sparks more questions: "And who created that?". It is relatable to any cultures that have gods. Generally, the answers are gods all the way up till you get 1 or 2 central gods, which explains how easily Christianity spread because their central god was often superimposed over other central gods and everyone else was simply a saint. But that doesn't stop it from making people think.
Yes, that I like enough to deem it a good question.
Do I have an answer? Well, I'm not really a believer, so I'll say we created god in our image, but not all of us created the same god.
Perhaps your's stones gays and mine is a giant snake that breathes fire and someone else claims his says 'he who has not sinned shall cast the first stone.' Chicken egg scenario. Some chickens are just built different, and those that last limit the gene pool or expand it in new and interesting ways, depending on your viewpoint.
6) The Socratic dialogues consisted of what kinds of conversations? Do you enjoy participating in such conversations?
Questions about the meaning of life, love, etc. I can't honestly say I'm a fan of such conversations. I prefer writing over talking. (Socrates would likely be pissed that I only respond to his verbal punches in carefully considered written or typed words that I can go back and edit until I'm happy with them). As for the topics, I'm happy to discuss (and do often verbally discuss lower hanging fruit such as what-if questions) and unfortunately often end up distracting my younger sibling Michael with these things until I realize that I have something I should be doing or he has something he should be doing at that moment. Time is the greatest enemy for considered thought. But I often prefer quiet pondering on my own time or lengthy diatribes of writing instead of questioning people in a Socratic seminar style. When I was forced to do my first one in school, I ended up with over a centimeter of printed pages as notes to bring with me to class. For me, this sort of thing has to be prepped beforehand, pressure in the moment elicits too much of the freeze response for proper thoughtful discussion, and really, any freeze response is too much for deep thought that will come up with satisfying answers for oneself.
DeleteI'm (only slightly) upset! Dr. Oliver, you said there wasn't a word limit on too much! It won't let me publish this as one comment because it is too long. :(
#2
ReplyDeleteLHP- #1. A successful conversation to Socrates is one where he asks enough questions to make the person, he's talking to rethink everything they thought they knew and to make them feel like they don't know anything. To Socrates wisdom meant, "understanding the true nature of our existence, including the limits of what we can know" (Warburton 3). This means wisdom is when people understand their purpose and have the ability to think in different ways. Such as the Knife example Warburton noted, which depicted Socrates asking someone is it wrong to take a knife from someone and then asked is it wrong to take a knife from someone who's about to kill themself. Therefore, wisdom is understanding the world isn't black and white, but there's a gray area. Also, the quote highlights that wisdom is knowing one can't understand or know everything there is to know.
#2
ReplyDeleteLHP Q3- Socrates inner voice told him to keep questioning everything. In this case I think his inner voice wasn't literal but referring to his mind and curiosity with being able to think deeply.
#2
ReplyDelete- LHP1: Socrates preferred a conversation to end with everyone coming to the realization that they do not know as much as they thought they knew before the conversation happened. He believed that true wisdom wasn't in knowing everything, but it was knowing the limits of knowing what we can know.
- Plato's story of the cave is connected with Plato's Theory of Forms. (Which I found interesting, especially the circle analogy.) To my belief, yes, everyone is stuck in their own cave. Each person has different perspectives, different shadows making up different things. For example, many people believe that we as Americans are not as privileged as we actually are. We see headlines in the media, and some of us even blindly take them as fact with little or no further research. This creates distortion and a lack of thinking for oneself. It is easy to see our country as a horrifying and saddening place if we allow those shadows of headlines to dictate our reality, but a person from a third-world country might think differently about how good we have it. Again, it's all about perspective.
- Additionally, I will say I lost a little trust in Plato and his perspectives once I read about his totalitarian views. In no world is that the answer to my belief. I think one of the greatest gifts of being a human is having a soul, and with that, a general sense of freedom.
Weiner: In Weiner's book, he points out that "philosopher" translates to "lover of wisdom". In Athens, philosophy was self-transformation. It was practical, therapy even. "Medicine for the soul"
I agree with your cave theory. Especially as Americans, we are stuck in a cave, and there's little way to get out.
DeleteSection #1
ReplyDeleteThe fact that socrates refused to write because he thought conversation was more worthwhile really stands out to me. Written philosophy can be confusing which then leads to the points trying to be discussed being brushed off. It reminded me of why this is a conversation based class. Talking to others about philosophy broadens all parties perspectives, and can get certain points across in a more personalized and effective way. Socrates not writing also made me think about how what we know of Socrates is through dialogues that were personalized for his students, and while they're profound and meaningful it must loose some meaning to us as readers and not the intended audience.
Plato's allegory of a cave is connected to plato's theory of forms. Personally, I do think that people are kind of stuck In a cave. Everyone is stubborn in their own ways, and in their own situations. For example fights in a friendship, both sides are stuck in two very opposite caves. Both sides are focused on what they think is true while the whole situation may say that both of them are wrong. While this may seem situational, think about it through the theory of forms haha! Even if both people aren't stuck in the cave, usually one is!
Socrates thought that an unexamined life wasn't a life worth living. I agree, and I think that most people probably do. While ignorance may be bliss, growing up I was afraid of living an unworthy life. I was scared of doing a job I didn't want to do, going home, sleeping, and repeating. Nothing of substance, not a real thought. I think philosophical thought can make a "boring" life blissful because you're engaging in something worthwhile.
Section #3
ReplyDelete1.) From just the brief comparison of Plato & Socrates and Aristotle's views of how to experience the world from A Little History of Philosophy ("Plato and Socrates thought of the world we see as a pale reflection of the reality that could be only be reached by abstract philosophical thought, Aristotle in contrast was fascinated by the details of everything around him...") the synthesis of the 2 schools of thought is encouraged in Eastern philosophy for achieving “enlightenment”. Plato's Cave is similar (from what I understand) to Buddhist and Hindu principles about reality being illusory. It is an illusion which can be broken through abstract philosophical thought ( in Buddhism and Hinduism it is achieved through the destruction of the ego.), but existence in an enlightened state combines both the detachment from the reality that we see and is taught, while also cultivating a deep attention to the world around you with equanimity. All of this to say that maybe the platonic school of thought can be combined with aristotelian thought?
2.) I agree with Socrates on not liking to write things down, i think speech is so much more complex and raw, when writing you can edit yourself down too much to sound a certain way. Like this comment I'm making; I've edited my original stream of consciousness text down so much so I sound like I know what I'm talking about. When you pay attention to someone talking to you begin to see the unconscious bend of their thoughts. You can see it in writing as well but it's harder because it has been obscured with edits. And speech can be so much more fluid and interesting, unless you have really beautiful prose naturally. I think philosophy and coming to philosophical conclusions depends on following a thought and seeing where it leads, and its more natural for me at least to do that through talking to myself or others. And when you talk to others about ideas you can get the added benefit of viewpoints that differ from your own that you can factor immediately into your ideas. I think people who prefer writing don’t like to be sloppy and messy and wrong.
3.) (In response to the 2nd question about Camus in the Weiner section.) Camus said the one true philosophical problem is suicide, or the question of if life is worth living. This question is the one true problem, but it hinges on the way you experience reality. If you understand the world the way that Camus understands it, then yes the biggest problem is suicide because it addresses the 2 options avalable to an individual in a world which doesn’t seem to have a point to it. (In the words of the song “Child Psychology”- either kill yourself or get over it.) However, if you believe that there is a point to life ( determinism or some form of thought like that) the problem shifts to different things, because the problem of living in a pointless reality is nullified.
Section #1
ReplyDelete1. Socrates believed that the unexamined life is not worth living. When Weiner heard this, it made life seem even more overwhelming than it already was, so he added two corollaries: 1) The examined life must produce results; 2) An overexamined life is not worth living either. I agree with Weiner’s additions, that we must not just contemplate life, but must use those contemplations to improve life, and that too much focus on the goal, without enough focus on the process, will stop us from reaching it (at least, this is how I interpreted his corollaries). But I also agree with Socrates’ original statement. I think it can be easy to get caught up in busy schedules and just rush from one activity right into the next, and then suddenly your life is almost over. Trying to examine your life doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re overthinking every single thing you do, it just means that you’re making an effort to ask yourself about what you do and why you do it. I think that effort can help us shift from feeling like robots that only wake up in the morning to complete our long to-do list for the day, to humans who have thoughts and goals and emotions and hobbies.
2. A successful conversation in Socrates’ eyes was one which ended with everyone realizing how little they knew. This is also how he defined wisdom–wisdom is knowing how much you don’t know, and that is why the Oracle deemed Socrates the wisest man alive. (I like that this story about Socrates makes humility and self-awareness a central part of wisdom.)
3. My favorite section of this reading was the chapter from Weiner about Marcus Aurelius and how difficult it can be just to get out of bed. I’ve never read Meditations, but Weiner’s explanation of it has convinced me to put it on my list. That chapter felt very personal, as roughly six hours before reading I had hit snooze on my alarm and gone back to bed for “just five more minutes.” Hopefully when my alarm goes off tomorrow morning I’ll remember what Marcus Aurelius told himself almost two thousand years ago–I wasn’t born to sleep the day away under the covers, but to do things and experience them.
The chapter about Marcus Aurelius was my favorite part of the reading as well!
DeleteSection #1
ReplyDelete1. I really liked how in A Little History of Philosophy it told us, "Wisdom for Socrates was not knowing lots of facts, or knowing how to do something. It meant understanding the true nature of our existence, including the limits of what we can know." For myself, I feel as though my immediate definition of wisdom is similar to the description in the first sentence, but with the introduction of wisdom meaning to understand the true nature of our existence allowed me to understand Socrates a bit more.
2. Plato's story of the cave is connected to his Theory of Forms. I think some humans are naturally, metaphorically, stuck in a cave. I think in recent times, social media and the way we consume media has become a major cave. The algorithms we interact with only reinforce what the people want to see, which keeps the people in the confinement of that view.
3. Socrates inner voice told him to keep questioning everything, and he could not betray it. I think in some sense, an inner voice in literal. I think your inner voice is shaped by how you grow up and what you want, and in times it leads you in making moral decisions on what to do in situations.
Hi! I also enjoyed how A Little History of Philosophy described Socrates. When we are taught about all of these grand, long-dead philosophers, it's hard to imagine them as people, just like we are now. This chapter really humanized Socrates for me, especially with his descriptions.
DeleteI also see what you are saying about that inner voice. While I think the "inner voice" was more of a figurative thing instead of a true voice, I agree entirely with how you said it shapes how you grow. Your inner voice, or conscience, most definitely leads your decisions in life, and there are times when that "gut feeling" almost feels like another person helping you in your head (if that makes any sense 😅).
Section #1
ReplyDelete2. What did Camus say is the one truly serious philosophical problem? Do you agree?
Camus stated that the only "true" philosophical problem was suicide, or in clearer words, the question of whether life was worth living at all. I agree with this, but only to a certain degree. I do think that it is important to consider the reasons that one would want to continue living. However, I do not think that every person should routinely consider whether they want to keep being alive or if they're tired and want to quit. I think that is a rather childish way of thinking about something as significant as a person's life, even if it is their own.
7. What did Socrates say about the unexamined life? What corollaries does Weiner propose? Do you think Socrates was wrong?
Socrates expressed that an unexamined life was "not worth living," but Weiner counters with his idea that an overexamined life is similarly not much of a life at all. He thinks that actually living life is more important than simply thinking about doing so. I don't think that Socrates was entirely, objectively wrong, but I don't exactly agree with him. I agree that a person should regularly examine their life and motivations. However, I believe that one purpose of life is to DO something. To achieve something, to complete something, to accomplish something, whatever it may be. Solely thinking about the fact that you are alive is no way to live simply because it leaves you with nothing to show for it in the end.
On a fairly unphilosophical note, I was fascinated by Weiner's love of train rides but not the trains themselves. How on earth do you appreciate a train ride without also appreciating the incredible invention that makes it possible?
I agree with what you and Weiner brought up about the over-examined life--the process of over-examining can be debilitating for people and strip them of the life they were living. If examining one's life becomes paralyzing, that seems counterproductive. However, I think that examining one's life in order to make positive change is worthwhile. Living without ever thinking about what you're doing and whether or not it's good for your soul, you, and those around you seems like it would cause a lack of personal growth and lead to an unfulfilling life.
DeleteThe above comment was from Natalie in Section #1 I forgot to put my name. Apologies!
DeleteSection #1
ReplyDeleteLHP #1- Socrates was a philosopher who decided to test the people's knowledge around him by asking questions in a somewhat interrogative manner until he finally came down to the true meaning of the discussion. Socrates regarded a conversation as successful if it was proven that the person who assumed they knew it all actually did not. This gives way to Socrates' meaning of wisdom: "understanding the true nature of our existence" (Warburton 3). Wisdom is not something that is artificially obtained, in my opinion; it is gained by thorough trial and error through deliberation of one's world around them. Like much of the assigned reading proposed, wisdom is not like general knowledge of trivia and facts. It is a learned skill that comes from being more aware of our surroundings, the people that we come across, and ourselves.
LHP #2- Plato's allegory of the cave is connected with his Theory of Forms, which is explained using the circle example in the text. From my understanding, the theory of forms states that there is some transcendent reality where everything is perfect, and our own 3D world is simply a distorted view of this perfect reality. I believe all humans are simply naturally stuck in the cave because of the fast-paced society we live in. Many people do not pause to deliberate or question the tiny things we experience in our daily lives that led up to specific moments we experience, in both a perfect and imperfect reality. For example, humans get so stuck with "going through the motions" that they fail to truly explore themselves or other people in a meaningful and fulfilling way. As a college student, I can say that it becomes difficult trying to make the most meaningful conversations or questions as most of the time, it feels like I'm just trying to complete the next thing and the next thing.
Weiner #4- The first question that young Needleman experienced came from his friend when he was a child: "'Who created God?'" (Weiner 18). This is a question that I believe many of us have experienced as well. Me personally, I have experienced this question by asking it to myself. Growing up as Catholic during my younger years, I found myself to be extremely curious about things I couldn't understand. If God was real, then how could he be documented through a book written by humans, and why hasn't he been documented in that manner since then? I truly believe this is a question that has many loopholes and can be expanded on in numerous ways. If God was created by God's power or God himself, how did the God or that power exist when nothing was here in the universe to sustain that power? If that power had been dormant in some universe before God created the world, then doesn't that mean that God isn't all powerful and that there is some other powerful figure more powerful than God? Additionally, if humans created God through this writing, why did they do it? Did they witness something that seemed supernatural in nature, or is it a coping mechanism to deal with the hardships of our physical world by believing in a Heaven where we will stand with God?
I'm also going to pose a question because I've just thought of it, and it's something that intrigues me. Do you believe that a true philosopher feels more connected and follows religions, or follows more of a scientific perspective on the world? Is philosophy somewhat a blend of these topics that lead philosophers to take some from both religion and science to formulate their own opinions based on a mixture of the two? I believe that it is somewhat of a blend of both these.
ReplyDeleteI also think it's probably a blend. Early philosophers would philosophize about the makeup of the world and how the world works but it seems like that became obsolete once we scientifically had an idea of those things. Socrates acknowledged the existence of the gods because of his eudaimon, but also questioned what the afterlife is like. Regardless of whether or not a philosopher is religious, they probably apply the same questioning process to whatever they believe in, so it seems like it could be a blend/either/or? Just a thought.
DeleteHere are some of my own questions/observations on the readings:
ReplyDeleteLHP
"Life, he declared, is only worth living if you think about what you are doing" (LHP pg 4). This made me think about the focus on mindfulness that existed in my elementary and middle school years, and wonder how much of an influence philosophical ideas/concepts have had on modern education and ideas. Even now, I see a lot of discussion of being present/mindful to combat the effects of excessive technology and social media use. Has anyone else had similar experiences? Have you seen ideas we read about show up in your education or your life so far?
On Socrates' preference for conversation instead of writing--I can definitely understand his preference for dialogue over written work which "can't answer back" and "can’t explain anything to you when you don’t understand them" (LHP pg 4). Nowadays, though, written words CAN answer back through texts. I know this is a silly hypothetical, but what do you think Socrates' opinion on discussions over text might be? Based on my previous learning, part of Socrates' brilliance was how quickly he could craft responses that would disarm his opponent. Texting gives the opponent the opportunity to take time to craft their response and also could also cause confusion in tone during a discussion. If texting were available to Socrates, would he think it was a productive way to have a philosophical discussion?
Plato's thoughts on "significant difference between appearance and reality" (LHP pg 5) reminds me of a discussion I've been a part of on the existence of one "truth" based in fact and whether or not that's a possibility. To summarize some of what was discussed, we bounced around the idea that our senses are unreliable, so the ability to determine that there is one, and only one, real "truth" is somewhat impossible; we each could have different accounts of something (as my classmate put it, "my truth may not be your truth"). Basically we discussed the idea of whether or not anything can actually, definitely, be factually "true" if everyone's perceptions are different. What do you think?
Weiner
"Crazy Wisdom"-- do you think people are more afraid to do public displays that make us "question [our] assumptions" now that social media exists? Or are people using social media as a device to make us question our assumptions? Has it made this kind of action/performance more or less accessible?
(Section H01)
ReplyDeleteLHP 1.) A successful conversation for Socrates was one where the receiver "realized how little they knew". In other words, his goal was to make the people he spoke to question themselves and their thinking; as annoying as this may seem, I think these conversations promoted wisdom. Socrates thought of wisdom as more than just knowledge. You can try to know everything there is to know, but knowing the limits of knowledge is true wisdom. Socrates knew this, and believed he knew the true nature of our existence because of it.
LHP 3.) Socrates said his inner voice told him to question everything, even to his own death. I don't think that inner voice was literal, but instead a feeling. I think him saying it was a voice was a way for him to manifest the feelings of curiosity and desire inside of him as a tangible thing. People do the same now. Many describe their feelings of depression and anxiety as monsters or voices inside of them as a way to symbolize complicated and difficult to understand concepts. Socrates wanted those around him to understand the feelings inside of him, so maybe his "inner voice" was his way of describing his mind.
Weiner 1.) "Philosopher" means, literally, lover of wisdom. In modern times, this definition describes someone who asks difficult questions, but in ancient Athens, philosophers were practical people who aimed to understand the world around them. There were no cellphones, no computers to simply find things like there are now. One had to philosophise, to think and learn to survive.
(apologies, I pressed the submit button too quickly.) *philosophize
DeleteHi Haylie! I found your interpretation unique. We differ in thinking that his inner voice was literal, but I was curious to hear more about your perspective. Thinking of the voice as a feeling rather than words repeated in the skull makes sense, and I can relate to that. A lot of the time, feelings can be hard to label or define, but they are still recognizable and intuitive. Additionally, do you think that in modern times, with all the resources available to us, philosophy should play a greater or lesser role in people’s lives?
DeleteHi Haylie, I agree with your response to Socrates inner thoughts. I believe it was more of a what he wanted thing, and his 'thoughts' were actually skewed by what he wanted
DeleteSection #1
ReplyDeletePlato and Socrates
2. What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
Plato’s story of the cave is connected to his Theory of Forms. The way I interpret the Theory of Forms, and how it relates to the cave, is that our conception of reality can never be perfect or complete. This is similar to the circle analogy. The people in the cave only knew the cave and the shadows on the wall, and nothing beyond that. Because of this, I agree with the general idea of the cave, but I would argue that each person is trapped in their own unique cave, limited by the information they have had access to up to that point.
Maybe Plato is encouraging us not to hyperfixate on defining reality or trying to explain everything concretely. When I think about the idea of Forms, it pushes me to examine reality more broadly. Reality is bigger than us and our individual caves. When we think we have escaped one cave, we should remind ourselves that there is always more to learn and more to uncover. We will never have the full picture.
3. What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal?
Socrates’ inner voice told him to keep questioning everything. I do think his inner voice was literal. It was that internal dialogue that most of us possess. My inner voice is constantly evaluating whether a thought or decision aligns with my values or fits my perception of reality. I imagine that when Socrates was faced with drinking the poison cup, his inner voice said, “Yes, this ending aligns with who I am and what I believe.” Socrates comes across as someone who was endlessly curious about reality. Therefore, he was not going to continue his life by being untrue to who he fundamentally was.
Weiner
1. What was the first question young Needleman experienced? Have you experienced it? Do you think it is a good question? How do you answer it?
The first question posed to Needleman that he said set him free was, “Who created God?” asked by his neighborhood friend Elias. I do not recall a time in my life when someone has asked me this question directly. I would answer it by saying that, long ago, someone came up with the idea of an omnipresent being capable of more than humans. I think having a god is a staple of humanity. That being said, I do not aim to offend anyone with this point of view; it is simply the cave I live in. God was created by humans to help grapple with the unknown.
The question “Who created God?” is a great one. A person’s answer can reveal a lot about their religious beliefs, how deeply they think about existence, and how they define what a god is.
Needleman's question is honestly a very good question. I have wondered that at a very young age as well. A lot of my belief system has been brought up through Christianity, so, for me, the answer has always been that God always was. I do respect other people's point of views because it is honestly a very mind boggling concept. The human brain cannot comprehend that something is outside of space and time itself and was just always there and will remain to be.
Delete2) What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
ReplyDeleteThe theory connected to this story is the Theory of Forms, created by Plato himself. I cannot bring myself to fully agree or disagree with this theory in all honesty. Based on my own experience, there are most definetly some people stuck within this cave, who are content with the way the world is without ever really investigating higher questions. But I don't believe its impossible for these people to begin to consider those questions. Alternatively, some people DO consider those questions, but are quite unconcerned with finding the answer. And then there are those who actively seek out the answer hungrily, trying to search for life's meaning. These people usually find various different answers.
David Vargas - Section #1
ReplyDeleteLHD - Chapter 1
1. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
A: For Socrates, a successful conversation challenged the conventional axioms of his environment. When asking seemingly straightforward questions, he had an unparalleled ability to exploit the fallacies of the responding argument. In short, Socrates sought to "reveal the limits of what people genuinely understood." By Socrates' standards, it was far better to understand how limited your knowledge was than to carry false pretenses. By accepting the natural parameters of human comprehension, the key to wisdom is much more easily attained. Wisdom, to Socrates, measured not what you knew, but instead manifests in the "nature of our existence," which Socrates would attempt to derive through the asking of questions driven by reasons and evidence.
2. What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
A: The "Allegory of the Cave" is connected with Plato's Theory of Forms
This theory is explained through an example involving the concept of a "perfect circle." If asked to recall every single circle one has ever seen in their life, not a single one will be perfect. But, one can also understand what a "perfect circle" is. This idea, as defined by Plato, is the "Form of a Circle." Essentially, Plato attempts to convey that those who rely solely on their senses to analyze the world around them are being misled. To truly understand a concept, you must concentrate on the abstract "Form" of the subject.
I believe that many humans, including myself, are "stuck in the cave." We all have respective interpretations of our experiences. These interpretations are shaped by the lens we choose to see them through. We deceive ourselves more often than we think, and it's incredibly difficult to break free of our distorted view. For the most part, this is a commonly shared human experience.
3. What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal?
Socrates would rather have been put to death than to stop questioning everything. He could not stand the prospect of living in conformity, and died in defiance of such an outrageous request. I believe that this "inner voice" was literal. Socrate's ethical standards dictated his life, and he refused to break them, even in the face of death. He would rather have died than continued to live as someone who remained quiet about the world around him.
Section #2
ReplyDeletePlato:
2)Plato's story of the cave is connected to the Theory of Forms. Plato's story of the cave is a really good example of some humans in the real world. Some people are so stuck in their ways that, even though the other side might be better, they stay firm on what they WANT to believe in. Some simply do not stop and think critically about the "why". They are so occupied with what life has to throw at them that they just put their foot on the gas and go instead of slowing down and understanding the journey.
3) Plato's inner voice told him to "question everything". I think that his inner voice was literal. His "inner voice" was just his conscience speaking to him. Everybody has an "inner voice" that guides them and helps them make decisions. Plato valued his inner voice and chose to respect it all the way to the end. My inner voice helps me decide between right and wrong. Moral consciousness is what drives people to believe and do what they think is right.
Weiner:
6) The Socratic dialogues were very informal, mind boggling discussions. They were often in groups and challenged multiple accepted ideologies of that time. I love discussions like these because they require people to think critically. I like debating and learning the "why" of things not just memorizing something "just because".
Section #1
ReplyDeleteA Little History of Philosophy
1) A conversation was a success for Socrates when it ended with the other person realizing how little they truly knew. His goal was to get people to think beyond the scope of what they already know and what they see. To him, wisdom was understanding why we exist and how much we can know. I agree with Socrates and believe that everyone should question and challenge ideas we already know, because this is the only way we can learn new perspectives and see things through a different lens.
2) Plato’s story of the Cave relates to the idea that some people simply believe what is right in front of their face and never go beyond the “cave” which represents the knowledge they already have. I do believe that all humans are “stuck in a cave”. Even those who question the world and seek truth, will always be “stuck in a cave” about come things because we cannot truly question everything in life. In other words, there will always be things that we may not care enough about to learn further, so our knowledge will always be limited in a way. This allegory reminds me of people, especially Americans, who watch news sights like Fox News of CNN for all their information (like the people in the cave watching the shadows) about the world rather than going beyond that and seeking truth from 1st hand experiences or video evidence (like the man who left the cave to see the rest of the world).
Weiner
4) Needleman asked, “what is life really about?”. This presents a philosophical awakening and realization that life has a deeper meaning beyond routines and appearances. I experience this everyday as I question why I am here and what my purpose is. This is a good question to ask because it forces reflection rather than certainty. You cannot answer this question only with words, rather with experience and how you live.
Graham Waltenbaugh, Section #1
ReplyDelete1. Socrates's goal was to get someone to question their own biases and assumptions. His idea of wisdom was being conscious of how little you know. If he could lure someone into an assumption, then subvert it to make them question what they thought, the conversation was a success. It wasn't about proving anything or anyone right or wrong, it was about getting the brain working, developing the muscle of philosophical conceptualization. If he were alive today, maybe he'd be making obscure indie video games. Hotline Miami 1 & 2 are a duology of games that confront the idea of violence being the assumed default player action. The Beginner's Guide is a game that presents itself as a sort of digital museum of games by a creator who has recently disappeared, only for the person presenting those works to actually be revealed as exploitative and obsessive towards that person. It ends up being a meditation on how the presentation of art can skew the art itself. Socrates could be using art and media to get a large audience to question themselves. Doesn't have to be video games, that's just what was on my mind lol.
2. Plato's cave allegory is related to his Theory of Forms, which is that every existing material object only exists as an imperfect recreation of the idea of that object, or the abstract "form" of it. Both ideas portray how pure physical senses can't paint a full picture of reality, and that only philosophers, who have more developed conceptualization skills, can determine something's true nature. I think about whether bigotry could considered a cave. If someone is bigoted against a minority group, their perception of the group is obviously far removed from the actual reality of the people in it. Media outlets that thrive on creating bigoted propaganda would then be the ones holding up the objects in front of the fire.
I think it's super interesting that you bring up art as a way to encourage critical thinking, because Socrates emphasizes censorship in The Republic. I think your point really highlights how art can be used to bring us closer to the truth, whereas Socrates thought it was only a mimic of reality, bringing us further from the pure form.
DeleteA successful conversation is one where the person walks away questioning what they know. wisdom is the how of the world rather than the what or the why. The cave is a metaphor for how people think, I don’t think all humans are stuck in the cave but I do think it is the easiest way of thinking but non neccessarily the natural way of thinking.
ReplyDeletePhilosopher means a lover of wisdom, philosophy was the self help of ancient Athens. The questions that most interested Socrates were questions that led to self reflection and questioning everything that you know. The Socratic Dialogues consisted of conversations between Socrates and the people of Athens as well as conversations between Socrates and his students and are on of the only written evidence of Socrates as he didn’t believe in writing things down because the page cannot respond to the word. I heavily enjoy participating in discussions that leave me questioning what I know because it means that there is still more to learn about myself and the world around me. I love participating in Socratic seminars because it is a natural discussion where topics flow freely and wisdom AND knowledge is shared.
1. A successful conversation to Socrates was one that left a person feeling like they knew nothing, or less than they thought they did, as opposed to feeling like they learned more. By wisdom, he means asking and understanding the why and how behind things, and not just blindly thinking you know something.
ReplyDelete2. I think most humans are, if not all, for at least some time in their life. As humans, we tend to be drawn to things that make us comfortable and that don't challenge us beyond what we believe we are capable of. That's why it takes pain, hardships, and trials to grow. So in a sense, I think people grow up a certain way, and they never want to change a certain aspect of their life, maybe it's a belief or opinion, or a habit or way of doing something, but their never open their mind to something new out of fear of discomfort and therefore miss out on so many things. This also reminds me of the last question. People who are afraid to leave their "comfort zone" on something probably don't even fully understand the "thing" they are afraid of leaving because they've never ventured out far from it to study why they like it, as opposed to something else.
3. He said his inner voice told him to never stop asking questions. It could have been literal, maybe he was schizophrenic, but it was probably a gut feeling, or a passion of his to where life just was boring and meaningless if he wasn't asking questions and diving in deep to everything.
(Section H03)
ReplyDelete1. " What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?" The cave allegory represents Plato's theory of forms. I believe that all humans are born stuck inside a cave, but an individualistic cave determined by a person's circumstances. I don't think any person is born with all the answers, and I certainly don't think every person has equal resources or even a desire to leave the cave.
2. "The Socratic dialogues consisted of what kinds of conversations? Do you enjoy participating in such conversations?" Socratic dialogues consisted of a chain of questions to uncover truth through reasoning. I believe this form of questioning encourages deep critical thinking and an opportunity to explore my own beliefs and their roots. It calls into question the logic behind my answers, leading me explore thoughts beyond my beliefs.
3. "Do you agree that we cannot understand ourselves if we do not understand others?" I absolutely agree that we cannot truly understand ourselves without taking into account the people that surround us. Although we may have a declarative internal image, it's through our interactions that we define our characters. I believe we have to understand the meaning behind the connection we have with others to explore ourselves.
John Aduroja - Section 2
ReplyDeleteLHP
1. Socrates considered thoughtful and insightful conversation that challenged people's thinking on matters they assume or appear to know, as used by Plato in his view of considering people as having appearances of the world, and only Philosophers see the reality.
2. Plato's story of the cave is connected to his theory of forms, on how we perceive a circle to be perfect in forms, but in actual illustration, it doesn't seem to be so. Yes, I do think that a large number of humans are in some allegorical sense stuck in a cave, as failure to question beliefs, opinions, or even not liking being questioned about what you hold dear shows you are stuck in a cave.
3. Socrates' inner voice pushed him to continually ask questions, and not just to assume or take things as the norm. Inner voice is not necessarily literal, but a representation of his moral compass, or as some call it, consciousness.
Weiner
1. Philosophers are lovers of wisdom, and in ancient Athens, philosophy was the practical, passionate, and intense pursuit of the truth and wisdom.
2. Camus identified the "one truly serious philosophical problem" as the conflict between humanity's inherent search for meaning and the universe's silent indifference. Yes, I do agree.
3. Marcus Aurelius needed to remember his mortality and duty, focusing on virtue and reason.
4. Young Needleman experienced the first question of "what is Justice?" I cannot expressively say I have experienced, as the definition of justice differs based on what becomes the standard to judge, but a relatable situation will be parents trying to decide which child is wrong and how to resolve it. Justice cannot be defined, but we can set boundaries and circumstances of what it seems like, which is why our laws that define justice are always under constant scrutiny.
5. Socrates was most interested in ethics, particularly questions about virtue, goodness, justice, piety, and the best way to live a flourishing life.
6. Socrates' dialogues consisted of cross examination question that tried to contradict and question what one believes. Yes, I do enjoy such kinds of questions, and I have had my share of them due to my involvement in the debate club.
7. Socrates said The unexamined life is not worth living for a human being. Weiner suggests that while Socrates meant we should seek wisdom, we must also be gentle with ourselves and others, recognizing that not everyone is a philosopher and that deep self-examination can be painful. I believe Socrates was both right and wrong, as we must take note of certain circumstances in his statement.
John Aduroja - Section 2
ReplyDeleteI observed in LHP Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle all had a star pupil, so I would like to know if that is a trend among philosophers and if Dr Oliver does have one.
Hello! I am from section #2 and have had some time to think on today's readings.
ReplyDeleteThough I have seen the cave theory a couple times in my academic career, I have not always been able to agree with it completely. While I do agree that the majority of new ideas that we now consider and will consider revolutionary were first shot down and criticized, I cannot agree that those who originally disagreed and felt threatened were "chained" or "stuck" per say. Our thoughts are one of the only if not the only part of our autonomy as people that cannot be controlled by law or forcibly "fixed." I am much more drawn to the idea that those described either by others or themselves as "stuck" are not being held captive, but rather entranced by simplicity. Thus the presence of a philosopher or philosophical thought is perceived as a threat to that simplicity.
During my readings I encountered the sentiment that these great thinkers will "live on" in the thoughts of others. But what does that really mean? They will not be able to continue to have experiences, have conversations, travel, teach, and all the things that made them human and especially who they were. Without those can we really call it living? And sure, they of course don't mean in the literal sense, no one has a little Socrates or Plato running around in their heads and especially not paying rent. I am also sure that these same great thinkers would not consider those conditions being alive at all, so what does "living on" really mean?
Stemming from this idea is the common description of the "voice in your head" guiding you. Though I don't believe it is literal I do believe that it has some sustenance to it as an argument. Maybe that is just one of the ideas that we will inevitably criticize later when someone changes what we know it to mean.
1. What kind of conversation was a success for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
ReplyDeleteA conversation was a success for Socrates when someone realized they didn’t actually know as much as they thought. He wasn’t trying to “win” arguments. He wanted people to question their beliefs. By wisdom, he meant knowing that you don’t know everything and being willing to keep asking questions.
2. What theory is Plato’s cave connected to? Are humans stuck in a cave? Plato’s cave is connected to the Theory of Forms. The cave means the everyday world, where people believe appearances and opinions are the truth. The world outside the cave represents real truth and knowledge. I believe that some people are stuck in a cave by choice and in fear of leaving their comfort zone.
3. What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Is it literal?
Socrates said his inner voice warned him when he was about to do something wrong. It never told him what to do, only what not to do.
It’s probably not literal, but more like conscience or intuition.
WEINER
1. What does “philosopher” mean? What was philosophy in ancient Athens? “Philosopher” means lover of wisdom. In ancient Athens, philosophy wasn’t schoolwork. It was talking, debating, and thinking deeply about life, usually in public.
2. What did Camus say is the one serious philosophical problem? Do you agree? Camus said the biggest philosophical question is whether life is worth living. I agree because I believe whatever answer you have to this question kind of gives you a idea of how you want to live your life.
Daniel #1
DeleteRemember, there's no need to respond with the factually-correct textual answer after someone else has already accurately supplied it. Rather (for example) than telling us, again, what kind of conversation the text says Socrates considered successful, tell us what YOU think of Socrates' view.
ReplyDeleteFYI, all - I've been trying to reply in particular to some of the foregoing posts but for some reason Blogger is currently only letting me issue new comments. So to the "Anonymous" question above, whether I have any "star pupils": to quote Sly Stone, "everybody is a star."
ReplyDeleteSarah, there's no word limit on new author posts but there is apparently a length-limit on comments.
ReplyDelete