Respond to any of these you'd care to, in the comments space below... or to questions posed by your classmates or yourself. Claim a base on the scorecard for each separate comment.
Socrates and Plato-LH1; HWT Intro & prologue; Rec. FL 1-2LH
1. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
2. What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
3. What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal?
HWT
- What's one of the great unexplained wonders of human history?
- Do you agree that we cannot understand ourselves if we do not understand others?
- What was Descartes's "still pertinent" conclusion?
- Why did the Buddha think speculation about ultimate reality was fruitless?
- What aspects of western thought have most influenced global philosophy?
- What do Africans not have, according to Kwame Appiah?
FL
1. What statement by Karl Rove began to "crystallize" Fantasyland, in Kurt Andersen's mind?
2. What are half of Americans "absolutely certain" about? What do a quarter believe about vaccines?
3. What is Andersen trying to do with this book?
Andrew Lacy
ReplyDeleteLHP Q1:
- For Socrates, someone leaving a conversation confused and questioning an idea they wrongly believed to know everything about, was a success in his eyes, as he'd be responsible for encouraging growth of knowledge and critical thinking
- Socrates believed wisdom not to be the largest collection of facts, but instead, the ability to know ones' limits of knowledge.
Andrew Lacy
ReplyDeleteLHP Q2:
- Plato's idea of the cave imagery is connected to his theory known as "Plato's Theory of Forms", wherein the appearance of physical things or ideas is inherently deceptive from the reality of that thing or idea.
- While I can see the argument in some sense (I think that striving to see the truth rather than the possibly warped version of that truth is an important and relevant idea for our current society) I also believe that the idea that "everyone else is blind to the truth" creates a difference in the power dynamic between people, as it implies that those who are ignorant about a situation are in some way inferior, and/or that those same people have less of a capacity to learn and grow.
I also believe that his idea of pushing this theory to the point of wanting to outright ban forms of artwork is honestly pretty ridiculous, considering that the whole point of art is to be an evocative representation of some aspect of reality (though I admit I have somewhat of a bias here); not to mention as well, that everyone perceives the truth slightly uniquely based on our minds and experiences, so the argument that there's no way to know the full truth to begin with is also a valid one (albeit one based somewhat on semantics)
Andrew Lacy
ReplyDeleteLHP Q3
- Socrates said that his inner voice told him to continue asking questions, to continue looking for and thinking about the answers concerning aspects of life and the human condition.
- I think the voice was more metaphorical, representing his incessant drive to continue learning
LHP Q3
ReplyDeleteSocrates had an inner voice that told him to keep questioning everything, and he could not betray it.
His inner voice in this context is just his conscious, so it's as literal as you think the conscious is.
HWT Q2
ReplyDeleteYes and no. To understand something fully is different then to understand the basis or main things about it. So I believe we can begin to understand ourselves through deep reflections and learning from our past and decisions we make. For example, We can understand how tiny we are when we look at the vast night sky, or we can see we have a short temper through being impatient with someone. However, community is integral to human experience and growth, and without learning from different people, cultures, and ethnicities, there is a great wealth of knowledge we leave untapped.
-Phinehas Rollman
DeleteRegarding Socrates analogy about the man stealing his friends knife so he won't commit suicide; although I would do the something, I do think it is an immoral thing to do. If we think of immorality as a spectrum, stealing a device used for murder is way lower on the spectrum than allowing your friend to commit suicide, however that doesn't mean its not on that spectrum. Sometimes we have to counteract immorality with immorality, and I believe this instance is one of those times.
ReplyDeleteI am answering question one from LH. Socrates saw the conversation with Euthydemus a success. The original question was "Does being deceitful count as being immoral?" and Euthydemus believed that to be true. Socrates then went on to use the example of having a friend wanting to commit suicide but then steal their knife to ensure that the friend could not kill themself. Eventually, after the conversation, Socrates had left Euthydemus to be clueless from the question. The sense of knowledge had shifted due to Socrates asking deeper questions about the matter. For Socrates, wisdom meant to understand the nature of existence. Even when Plato had gone to the oracle, he asked who the wisest was and she answered that it was Socrates. Socrates asked multiple questions about the very nature of existence, therefor holding a lot of knowledge.
ReplyDelete-Kailei Davis
Section #6
DeleteSocrates took pride in challenging the assumptions that everyone knowingly or not made about their lives. He was so dedicated to this pursuit that he sooner antagonized a crowd that was seeking to put him to death than to walk back his gadfly-nature for even a moment. He claimed to have a voice within him that told him to keep questioning everything, and believed that an unchallenged life was fit only for cattle. A successful conversation for Socrates was one that ended with everyone realizing how little they knew. This nature was the very cornerstone of what made him so wise - his ability and more importantly willingness to always ask questions, and to always debate and challenge what he really knew. Wisdom for Socrates was understanding the true nature of existence, including the limits of what we can know.
ReplyDeletePlato's allegory of the cave is a perfect example of his belief that everything is not as it seems. That there is a significant difference between appearance and reality. That what is true and what can be sensed are often vastly different. His theory of the form of something versus the appearance of it. I do think that a lot of people willingly chose to only accept the shadows on the wall as truth, instead of looking for the fire casting them. Knowingly or not, entire lives are often built upon these misconceptions and deceptions, and 'leaving the cave' or otherwise trying to see the reality of life versus the appearance of it would force any truth seeker to rip away those assumptions - leaving one feeling vulnerable, and lost without what was previously a fundamental truth of one's life.
Elliote Gay
Section Six
Charlcie Shelton - 007
ReplyDeleteLHP Q1 - Face-to-face conversation. Wisdom to Socrates meant "understanding the nature of our existence, including the limits of what we can know."
LHP Q2 - Platos Theory of Forms. Yes, what we know is our reality. No one can see things from a different perspective then what is humanly possible. All we can do is theorize.
LHP Q3 - It told him to keep questioning everything. Yes, everyone has a subconscious.
HWT Q1 - Philosophy was developed in several parts of the world, however it was at roughly the same time
HWT Q2 - Yes, if you don't understand others then you would only know yourself and think that is how everyone is, therefore not understanding that you are unique or understanding how you operate.
HWT Q3 - "Wherever we live 'we are clearly persuaded more by custom and example than by certain knowledge.' "
HWT Q4 - Because he believed "the only evidence available to us is that of experience."
HWT Q6 - Common traditions such as culture, language, or conceptual vocabulary.
FL Q1 - "People in the reality based community believe that solutions emerge from judicious study of discernible reality. That's not the way the world works anymore."
FL Q2 - Half are "absolutely certain" Heaven exists, and a quarter believe vaccines cause Autism.
(Section 6)
ReplyDeleteLHP Q2: Plato's story of being stuck in a cave relates to his Theory of Forms. I think that everyone is "stuck in a cave" to their own degree. No one person can be all-knowing, similar to the saying "Jack of all trades, master of none." People can have either a wider but more superficial understanding of various topics, or they can have a very finite and in-depth understanding of a few topics. If you were to talk about flying a plane to a quantum physicist, they might have a very basic knowledge about how a plane flies, but unless they experience it for themselves, they will be "stuck in the cave" when it comes to aviation. Likewise, if someone were to talk to me about quantum physics, I might be able to relate it in some sense to what I know, but I would still be "stuck in the cave."
I feel that it is impossible for someone to not be "stuck in A cave", just they might not be stuck in the same cave as everyone else and maybe not to the same degree as everyone else.
LHP Q1: A successful conversation, to Socrates, was one that ended in the other person leaving confused about their knowledge and beliefs. The wisdom he meant was the will and intelligence to ask tough questions, and search for the answer using evidence and reason.
ReplyDeleteJordan Martin 7 --
ReplyDeleteHWT 1.
One of the greatest unexplained wonders of human history is that philosophy seemed to blossom in different areas across the world, around the same time. After reading this, it made me really wonder how is it that these philosophers were all influenced to write and share their philosophical ideologies all down around the same time?
LH2: It relates to the Theory of Forms, and how the physical world is not as real as ideas. It treats the forms as truth, and everything else as false and unable to be understood by people still stuck in the "cave".
ReplyDeleteLH2: It relates to the Theory of Forms, and how the physical world is not as real as ideas. It treats the forms as truth, and everything else as false and unable to be understood by people still stuck in the "cave". Note - the above one is also mine, I just forgot to put my name in.
ReplyDeleteEmma Essary Section #6
ReplyDeleteHWT 1- One of the greatest unexplained mysteries has to be Stone Henge, which is known to represent peace and unity.
2- No, because everyone on earth has had a different experience and even though a situation can be similar, you cannot truly feel what the other person is feeling the majority of the time. Understanding another's situation is the easy part. Relating and acknowledging how you would feel in a certain situation is what people tend to struggle with.
Section 6
ReplyDeleteFor Socrates, the kind of conversation that was a success is a conversation that left a person realizing that they did not know much at all. He also never wrote conversations down because he felt that a face to face conversation was much better because it allowed him to connect to the other person and make sure he can convey his thoughts clearly. To Socrates, wisdom meant understand the true nature of existence and the limits of what we can know.
The theory that the story of the cave is connected with is the Theory of Forms. I think that at least some humans are "stuck in a cave" because most people are content with conforming with other people's ideas.
Socrates' inner voice told him to keep questioning everything, I don't think this voice was literal, but it was just his nature. This is because he would say that he knew very little while other people would say nobody is wiser than him. I also feel that his death was a way of showing that being an individual and continuously questioning everything strengthened his message.
LH1: Any conversation where they left confused was considered successful for him. For him, wisdom was understanding that he didn't know perfectly everything, but understanding the nature of existence.
ReplyDeleteLH Q1
ReplyDeletesection 6
Socrates thought that a successful conversion was when people who thought they knew something and left confused. This caused people to think which is what he wanted for others. He wanted to show people how little they truly knew. Wisdom is understanding our limit of what we know.
LH
ReplyDelete1. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom? A conversation where Socrates could make someone reconsider how sure they were about the truth of something was a success for him. I think the wisdom was that you shouldn't be so sure of what you think you know and should always consider more.
3. What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal? Socrates inner voice told him that he couldn't go on without the ability to question everything. I don't think 'inner voice' is literal more so philosophically for him he wouldn't see the point in continuing.
LHP Q3:
ReplyDeleteThe “inner voice” paragraph of the chapter deals with how Socrates was being put to death for how uncomfortable he made people feel with his philosophical work. Socrates “inner voice” wasn’t a literal voice in his head. The phrase conveys that Socrates felt his purpose included continuing to question people. He felt so strongly about it that he’d rather drink the poison than live and promise not to question people further.
LH 1. A successful conversation by Socrates standards was one that questioned the pre-existing concepts a person had built upon. By breaking down his or her reasoning behind even the most common of thoughts such as being deceitful is immoral,he highlighted the inconsistencies in that "Wisdom". His true outlook on wisdom was that few people to no one possessed it. He constantly posed questions in an attempt to achieve it; however he believed that he never had.
ReplyDeleteLH 2. The cave story posed by Plato relates to his theory on "Plato's theory of forms". I do believe in some facet that humans are trapped by their senses. Perception is reality. Although one can empathize with another person, they can never truly understand the reality that the other person experiences through their senses. For example, humans as a whole has recognized the color towards the far left of the color spectrum as red. Although we may all recognize the same color as "red" we may not all be viewing the same color universally. My yellow may be your red and vice versa because neither can be proven.
ReplyDelete^"Author"
DeleteLH 3. Socrates "inner voice" told him to keep asking questions. To not go back on his reasoning for fear of his health. I don't believe the "inner voice" was a actual voice, but a moral code he believed in. Socrates would not go back on his moral code of conduct even if it cost him his life.
ReplyDeleteRaymond Curry Section 6
ReplyDeleteSocrates wanted everyone to ask questions to get to know how you really think. However, the questions you ask must be intellectually honest. The people who refused to take the covid vaccines thought they were asking questions of authority, but it appears to me they were fooling themselves. The same with the current "Diversity" movement. They seem to me to want to crowd out everyone who disagrees with them. I think it was Voltaire who said "Just a man by the questions he asks, not by the answers he gives".
Derek Clayton section 6
ReplyDelete1. For Socrates, a successful conversation was one that pushed what people knew. He liked to make people question what knowledge they had, and how limited it was.
2. Plato used the allegory of the cave to show how philosophers study the world, but people will often rebel. I feel like people are not naturally stuck in the cave, but are of their own design.
3. His inner voice told him to always ask questions. His inner voice is the same as for most of us, its called just that. It mostly represents what he thinks, his ideals so to speak.
Luke Jeansonne section 10
ReplyDelete1. A successful conversation for Socrates was a conversation that made people think deeper about things they already knew, to show them that they may not understand the full truth. In his eyes, Socrates thought that wisdom meant you acknowledging the fact that you don't pretend to know what you don't know.
Luke Jeansonne section 10
ReplyDelete2. Socrates' inner voice was a voice he heard only when he was about to make a mistake. I don't think that this inner voice was literal.
Luke Jeansonne section 10
ReplyDelete3. I do not agree that we can't understand ourselves if we don't understand others, because why should we need to understand others? The most important thing is that we understand ourselves, and not being able to understand others shouldn't affect you from understanding yourself.
Connor Haynes (Section 10)
ReplyDeleteLHP Q# 2: Plato's allegory of the cave is connected with the idea of belief versus knowledge. It can make someone question if there is truth in a higher power or even a false sense of reality. I think that a lot of people are allegorically stuck in a cave because they may be stuck in a system and don't even realize that there might be another level somewhere within reach. Maybe some people have the capacity to see it, but maybe some others do not.