Epicureans and Stoics, LH 4-5; FL 7-8, HWT 6-8
2. How is the modern meaning of "epicurean" different from Epicurus's? Do you consider yourself epicurean in either sense of the term?
3. What famous 20th century philosopher echoed Epicurus's attitude towards death? Do you agree with him?
4. How did Epicurus respond to the idea of divine punishment in the afterlife? Is the hypothesis of a punitive and torturous afterlife something you take seriously, as a real possibility? Why or why not?
5. What was the Stoics' basic idea, and what was their aim? Are you generally stoical in life?
6. Why did Cicero think we shouldn't worry about dying? Is his approach less or more worrisome than the Epicureans'?
7. Why didn't Seneca consider life too short? Do you think you make efficient use of your time? How do you think you could do better?
- Have you experienced the death of someone close to you? How did you handle it?
- Do you care about the lives of those who will survive you, after you've died? Is their continued existence an alternate (and possibly better) way of thinking about the concept of an "afterlife"?
- Do you consider Epicurus's disbelief in immortal souls a solution to the problem of dying, or an evasion of it? Do you find the thought of ultimate mortality consoling or mortifying?
- How do you know, or decide, which things you can change and which you can't?
- Were the Stoics right to say we can always control our attitude towards events, even if we can't control events themselves?
- Is it easier for you not to get "worked up" about small things you can't change (like the weather, or bad drivers) or large things (like presidential malfeasance and terrorist atrocites)? Should you be equally calm in the face of both?
- Is it possible to live like a Stoic without becoming cold, heartless, and inhumane?
- What do you think of when you hear the word "therapy"? Do you think philosophers can be good therapists?
- Do you think "the greatest happiness of the greatest number" is an appropriate goal in life? Can it be effectively pursued by those who shun "any direct involvement in public life"?
- If the motion of atoms explains everything, can we be free?
- Is it true that your private thoughts can never be "enslaved"?
Epicureanism: The Original Party School
Permanent Link to this Comic: https://existentialcomics.com/comic/133
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Philosophers in this comic: Epictetus. In The Enchiridion Epictetus gives the advice that in order to avoid suffering, we should not become too attached to particular things, so that when they inevitably end we are not caused undue harm. He starts with the fairly straightforward example of a cup that we like breaking:
With regard to whatever objects give you delight, are useful, or are deeply loved, remember to tell yourself of what general nature they are, beginning from the most insignificant things. If, for example, you are fond of a specific ceramic cup, remind yourself that it is only ceramic cups in general of which you are fond. Then, if it breaks, you will not be disturbed.
He then proceeds immediately to what seems a quite more drastic example:
If you kiss your child, or your wife, say that you only kiss things which are human, and thus you will not be disturbed if either of them dies.
Some may find that living in such a way is strange, to say the least.
Permanent Link to this Comic: https://existentialcomics.com/comic/264
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Stoicism Man...The Next Great Stoic competition... Stoic apathy
ReplyDeleteEmma Essary section 6 LHP 1. "When we exist, death is not yet present, and when death is present, then we do not exist." Epicurus believed that death meant nothing to those alive or dead, and that the best way to live was through peace of mind and freedom from anxieties. I do not fear the cold kiss of death, I embrace it.
Embrace? Not just accept?
DeleteEmma Essary section 6- LHP 2. The meaning of the word today represents the over- indulgence of desires. This is the opposite of the meaning Epicurus followed. He believed that life should be lived simply, because feeding into desires only causes you to want to fulfill more of them.
ReplyDeleteLH2 - The modern meaning is more about enjoying the finer things in life, while the classical meaning was about enjoying what you have within your means. I suppose I consider myself epicurian in the older sense? I don't really try to shoot for finer things unless it's something that I know I'd be able to get. You'd never see me dine on lobster or salmon roe, for example.
ReplyDeleteLH4: He responded that the gods don't really care about people, due to them being below their station, so they wouldn't punish them. I don't really believe in the idea of a torturous afterlife, as only a really cruel god would do such a thing.
LH5: The basic idea is that they shouldn't worry about things they aren't able to change, and not get worked up about it. I wouldn't say I'm very stoical, as it's one of those things that is easier said than done.
LH. #1- ccording to Epicurus, fear of death is based on what, and the best way to live is what? Are (or were) you afraid of death, or of dying? Are you more afraid of losing others?
ReplyDeleteFear of death is fear that it will hurt us which in some way means that we think that we can see and feel what is happening to our bodies even after they are no longer alive. He asked why we should fear the time that we exist after life anymore than the time before life. The best way to live is to understand death. I am more afraid of the time during my life that will be affected by death, mine and especially others.
LH. #3- What famous 20th century philosopher echoed Epicurus's attitude towards death? Do you agree with him?
ReplyDeleteLucretius'. He brought up the strange idea that we do not fear the time before our lives as much as after. We should feel the same way as we do about each period of time before and after our existence. I agree with him.
LH1. Epicurus believed there was no need to fear death if you just life’s a simple life. You would be able to die without the regrets of not achieving the big dreams/ wants, if you just reach for things that are reasonable you won’t have to fear death. I would like to say I’m not afraid of death, because I can’t really control it. However if I’m staring death in the face I would probably be at least a little fearful.
ReplyDeleteLH2: The modern meaning of epicurean is someone who love fine, expensive foods, someone in luxury.Someone who is living the high life so to speak, the exact opposite of how Epicurus taught.
Section #6
ReplyDelete1/31
LH 2: The modern definition of Epicurean refers more to the idea of fine dining or in a more broad sense, trying to enjoy the finer, more high class aspects of life. This sadly runs in contrast to Epicurus’s more humble idea of good living being tied to trying to enjoy the important things in life, and trying your best to surround yourself with the friends and people you love and appreciate, to live a more whole and fulfilling life, and idea that in many ways I personally subscribe to
LH 3: Ludwig Wittgenstein echoed many of Epicurus’s beliefs towards death, presenting that death was a process that we weren’t an active participant in after it initially happens, as we are inherently linked to our bodies in life for a sense of experience and perception, and as such, once we die, we can’t be sure that we’ll actually be able to participate in any events after the fact, let alone any processes of grief or sadness
LH 4: Epicurus believed that the idea of divine punishment was also something we shouldn’t fear, as he believed that the gods were inherently disconnected and unconcerned with the happenings of man. Epicurus also believed that believing in happenings and ideas after our death was unwarranted, as it draws more attention to the future after we won’t exist, despite the fact that most of us never consider the experiences and past before we existed. Either way, I’m personally unsure of what, if anything, lies after death, divine punishment or otherwise. I feel that such an idea could seem somewhat feasible, but outside of faith-based belief systems, none of us can truly know for sure what will happen until it does (or doesn’t) happen. Either way, it’s not something I’m too concerned with, as I believe it’s more prudent to focus on and try living life for what it is, rather than stressing myself about what it could be
LH 5: The basic belief of stoics was the idea of trying to navigate the more unpleasant aspects of life through trying to remain resolute, unwavering, and hardened to negative ideas. The idea of hardening oneself to protect from life’s unpleasantness. I’d say I’m not fairly stoic in my life, but there are moments where I feel a need to tap into those ideas to better protect and navigate a situation. On the whole however, I’d say I’m more emotion driven.
ReplyDeleteLH 1
Epicurus says that fear of death is based on bad logic. He says the best way to live is to overcome this fear and make living more intense. I am personally sometimes afraid of my death when I think about it too much. I feel this pressure to make the best out of my life and I fear that I wont feel satisfied by the end of it. I of course fear the death of my loved ones as well.
LH4
ReplyDeleteEpicurus’s response to the idea of divine punishment in the afterlife is mainly that we won’t have that. He thinks the creator(s) of our world live apart from us and aren’t really interested in us. Thus, they won’t care to punish us. I personally do not know if the afterlife presents possible punishment. I accept the possibility of it and I accept the possibility that it doesn’t exist as well. My reasoning for why I think this way is because I don’t have any proof that it exists or that it doesn’t.
Epicurus thought that the fear of death was based on bad logic. I'm not as afraid of death that I am afraid of losing others. Even if I think about my death I do not fear much, I just know it will happen so that motivates me. Now when I think of losing someone, I am much more afraid of that because I have to live with them being gone for the rest of my life.
ReplyDeleteLH 1
ReplyDeleteEpicurus states he fear of death is based on bad logic, and that the best way to live your life is to overcome this fear and live intensely. I have never liked the idea of my death, but I am more afraid of the people close to me dying. I usually try to avoid the thought and not let myself get worked up over something that has not happened.
Hannah Collins sec 10
ReplyDeletelh1: Epicurus states the fear of death has its roots in poor logic and the fear of what comes afterward. While I don't want to die, I don't think I've ever been afraid of death until recently. I grew up in a rather religious house so I was essentially taught that while I shouldn't actively seek death, it was kind of a good thing.
Section 6
ReplyDeleteLH 1
Epicurus says that fear is of death is a waste of time. Don’t be anxious because it takes away from the here and now. I am not afraid of death because I have faith in the Bible and what it says about death. I am more afraid of loosing others because going through lose is upsetting when you can’t see that person. It’s nice to have the memories of someone but having them present with you is preferable for me.
LH 4
DeleteEpicurus thought that being worried about punishment is a waste of time. I do take this seriously because if you’d read the Bible and try and understand the reason for such a place as hell you would understand. Do you think that bad things deserve to go unpunished? (Murder, theft, lying) God doesn’t he brings the justice to those who want to go against the creators will.
Section 7
ReplyDeleteGiovanni Del Valle
2. How is the modern meaning of "epicurean" different from Epicurus's? Do you consider yourself epicurean in either sense of the term?
Epicurus believed in moderation and a simple life. His stance was that we shouldn't seek the most luxurious things, or we would fall into the trap of wanting things we can't get. The modern day meaning of epicurean means to strive for luxury, have lots of physical pleasure, and consume exotic foods.
section 7
ReplyDelete1. Epicurus believed that a fear of death got in the way of having a good life and that the bases of that fear was flawed logic. I myself am not really afraid of dying, but losing someone close to me would ruin me.
2. Epicureans is someone who wants to live luxuriously. This differs from epicurus himself as he just encouraged people to be nice to each other and have a comfortable, good life. I wont consider myself a mondern day "epicurean" but I do endulge myself sometimes.
3. Ludwig Wittgenstein also believed that death was not something to fear. He thought that death was not even an event in your life as it is the loss of opportunity. I agree with this sentiment and its one one of the reasons I chose to present on Wittgenstein for my midterm.
Charlcie Shelton -007
ReplyDeleteLHP 2 - Today's definition of "epicure" is someone who indulges in luxury/self satisfying things to make themselves happy, while Epicurus's idea was more about reflecting on good times throughout your life to lift your spirits during hard times. While I don't consider my self an epicurean by today's terms, and I haven't been much of an Epicurus epicurean, I think I might give his strategy a go next time I am feeling down.
LH 5
ReplyDeleteThe Stoics’ basic idea was that we should only worry about things we can change and their aim was for a calm state of mind. The text gives the example how a Stoic should remain unmoved when facing the death of a loved one. For this particular example, I wouldn’t say I’m stoic in life. However, to an extent, I agree that our attitude to what happens is within our control even though what happens often isn’t. I do my best to practice this in my daily life, but these daily events are different than big ones like the death of my loved ones. To be more specific, I think we can’t control our emotions as much as we can control our attitude - which is precisely what the text says. Because, you might feel negative feelings, but you can choose to how you approach the situation and how you think of it. For example, do a “oh, that sucks, but I don’t have control over it so lets move on.” But, once again, that concept can’t be held to strongly when it comes to things like the death of a loved one. I personally believe it is necessary to grieve and feel those feelings.
LH
ReplyDelete1. According to Epicurus, fear of death is based on what, and the best way to live is what? Are (or were) you afraid of death, or of dying? Are you more afraid of losing others? Epicurus thought fear of death was based on bad logic and was a waste of time. He thought the best way of living was by living simply, focusing on finding satisfaction in what you have, and not wasting time on the unattainable. I try not to fear death because it can happen at any moment and I don't want to live in fear. I'm more afraid of losing others because I'd have to live through it.
4. How did Epicurus respond to the idea of divine punishment in the afterlife? Is the hypothesis of a punitive and torturous afterlife something you take seriously, as a real possibility? Why or why not? Epicurus didn't fear the idea punishment in the afterlife because he believed that gods existed apart from us and didn't get involved with the world. I am not concerned with the possibility of a torturous afterlife because I personally believe we are simply physical beings.
7. Why didn't Seneca consider life too short? Do you think you make efficient use of your time? How do you think you could do better? Seneca didn't consider life to be too short, he felt people at the end of their lives simply regretted the attitude they took toward life and what they chose to spend their time on. I think I am beginning to make more efficient use of my time than I have in previous years. I could do better by spending less time worrying about minor obstacles.
Jordan Martin 007
ReplyDelete1. According to Epicurus, fear of death is based on what, and the best way to live is what? Are (or were) you afraid of death, or of dying? Are you more afraid of losing others?
Epicururus believed fear of death was based on bad logic. He believed philosophy should be practical, change the way we live, and most importantly be a simple lifestyle to avoid disappointment essentially. I am not afraid of dying as much as it being a painful process or how it happens...I am 100% more afraid of losing someone close to me than death.
Jordan Martin 007
ReplyDelete2. How is the modern meaning of "epicurean" different from Epicurus's? Do you consider yourself epicurean in either sense of the term?
Epicurus's definition and the modern day definition differ in the way that today an Epicurean is known as someone who indulges in luxury and sensual pleasure and eats fine foods. However, Epicurus believed you should live a simple and moderate lifestyle; He believed giving into greedy desires would create more wants that can't be fulfilled.
Personally, I thing I am in between both definitions. I try not to live above my means as I know that isn't responsible as a new adult, however I do sometimes indulge in good food and drinks as well as certain "luxury" items.
Felopater Melika #7
ReplyDeleteLH
1. bad logic, to stop thinking about death and live, not really, it’s out of my control, somewhat but that also isn’t in my control, so I usually don’t think much about things out of my control.
2. The modern definition seems to be indulging in hedonism while the ancient one was more about being moderate, and by the modern definition I am not.
3. Ludwig Wittgenstein, yes, I agree.
4. That the Gods don’t care about humans, I take it because I am a Chrisitan so I believe God exists and there for I might go to hell, so I try my best to go to heaven.
5. To worry only about things you can change, yes, I am a stoic.
6. It’s a natural process out of our control.
7. Because we cry about it being short while wasting most of it, I try my best to not waste seconds, by eliminating distractions and doing what’s matter and avoiding what doesn’t and thinking more long term.
8. Being cold hearted, and yes, it’s possible as you don’t have to be 100% stoic, you can be 99% stoic and 1% human.
HWT
1. William James, John Dewey, and Charles Sanders Piece.
2. when it becomes a problem solver for philosophers, what we don’t doubt in our hearts.
3. solidarity
4. He is right about reality, It is objective but people made it subjective.
Section 7 Carter Marbry
ReplyDeleteLH 1: the fear of death is that it can be very painful or in some way. The best way to live is to be free and have some sort of peace of mind. Of course I’m afraid of death everyone is. You don’t know what comes next that is why most people have religion.
LH 2: The modern is about living a life of luxury and stuff, while the ancient one is about being some kind of moderate. While I do like things of luxury I don’t think that lifestyle will suit me.
LH 3: Ludwig Wittgenstein, yes I do agree with his view
HWT 3: their desire is some form of solidarity.
LH Q1. Epicurus believed that death was a waste of time and bad logic. He felt the key to life was realizing everyone seeks pleasure. I believe that death and grief is only felt deeply by those who are left without the loved one. I do not fear death. I am of the idea that life is suffering, and those pains will no longer be weighing in death. It is a beautiful thing. I think it should be celebrated not feared nor solemn. Many different cultures see death as natural, and to be decorated as a happy event or celebration of ones life while they were here. Whether someone believes there is an afterlife or reincarnation... we are not in control of any of it. I know this scares some, but I see that as the ultimate peace. You relinquish control because the reality is.. we all are born without choice, age, and pass. It is the ultimate truth of life itself. I would say that I am more afraid of losing close family, but mostly for how it will effect everyone else. I worry that if my sister is to pass, how her children and husband will live without her or if they will ever recover. They do not have the same acceptance as I on death and the natural beauty of it. I believe that with my pursuit of a nursing degree has helped me see death in a healthier perspective. Unfortunely, not everyone has experienced this balance. But I do hope that my loved ones can learn or be inspired by me to accept the inevitiblity.
ReplyDelete007, LH, Q2→ the modern meaning of Epicurean is to love the luxuries and to gratify our sensual pleasures, while Epicurus taught moderation and a type of content with your life.
ReplyDelete007, LH, Q3→Ludwig Wittgenstein agreed when he wrote “tractatus Logico-Philosophicus. I don’t agree with this view. Life is our most precious possession and the most valuable thing we have, so it makes sense to be fearful of losing it. Our natural and purest reaction to death is to run from it, which I believe means that in our most natural and unadulterated state, we fear death.
007, LH, Q5→Their basic idea was that we should only worry about things we can change and that we shouldn’t get worked up about anything else. At the heart of stoicism was that we are responsible for what we feel and think. They aimed for a calm and peaceful mind. I would call myself stoical in some senses, however I do think it can leave out empathizing or grieving with other people, which are things I believe are valuable and good to do.
LH 4-5.
ReplyDeleteQuestion 1. Epicurus argued that fear of death was a waste of time and based on bad logic. His reasoning was if you feared death, this would make your life more intense. He believed the key to life was to seek pleasure and avoid pain at all possible chances. He thought life should be simple and death or worry of death only complicates it. To Epicurus, if one dies then they just aren't experiencing life anymore. I am not afraid of dying because I know we all die one day, and it is inevitable. I am more afraid of losing others such as loved ones and friends because they are some in my life that I simply cannot imagine living without.
Kailei Davis. Section #6
LH 4-5
ReplyDeleteQuestion 3. Ludwig Wittgenstein echoed Epicurus in his book, "Tractatus Logico - Philosophicus" about how death was not a part of an event of life. To him, all events of life is an experience and dying took that possibility of an experience away. I can agree to that somewhat I mean one must still prepare for dying or at least the aftermath such as burial services or so. I can agree that life is an experience and once we die, we can no longer experience anything.
Kailei Davis. Section #6
LH 4-5
ReplyDeleteQuestion 5. The stoics were renowned for their lessons in how to be psychologically tough in the face of unfortunate events. Their idea was that we shouldn't only worry about things we can change. They believed that emotions clouded reasoning and damaged judgment. To them, whatever happens will happens but what matters is how we respond. I would say I am stoical in life because I believe in making the best out of a bad situation instead of getting upset and letting it tear me apart.
Kailei Davis. Section #6
Connor Haynes Section 10 LH 3
ReplyDeleteThe famous 20th century philosopher who echoed Epicurus's attitude towards death was Ludwig Wittgenstein. He believed that death is not an event in life and therefore cannot be experienced, so it is not something to be feared. I however do not agree with this because if your death happens to be painful, you probably would not want to experience that.
LH-Q1: Epicurus believed that the "Fear of death" was just another state of mind the average human had to overcome. Am I afraid of death, or of my friends dying? I shouldn't be, and I don't know (As long as it isn't within my reach to save a life), but I will figure that out when I get there.
ReplyDeleteLH-Q5: Their basic idea was to rid things out of their mind that they couldn’t control or change. They aimed for a calm state of mind. Generally, yes, but I believe it makes me more reactive/proactive about the things I can control.
ReplyDelete