Questions pertaining to the assigned reading will normally be posted prior to each class.Always share your thoughts in the comments space below each day's post (at least three comments per class, so you can shade the whole diamond on the scorecard when you come to class and receive full participation credit each time... more than that gets you extra credit). Give yourself a base on the scorecard for every question you posted a response to before class. (You can also respond to your own questions(s) or your classmates' posted comments. Respond not merely with the authors' textual statements but also with your own thoughts & reflections.) 25 exam questions will pertain to the required texts. Additional bonus questions pertaining to the recommended texts will also appear.
1. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
- "Philosopher" means what? Philosophy was what, in ancient Athens? (Introduction)
- What did Camus say is the one truly serious philosophical problem? Do you agree?
- What did Marcus Aurelius need, at dawn, to remind himself of? (And ask me about his morning mantra, which I daily remind myself of. UPDATE: Turns out it wasn't Marcus, but a 19th century American named Elbert Hubbard, whose morning mantra* has been falsely attributed to the Stoic emperor.)
- What was the first question young Needleman experienced? Have you experienced it? Do you think it is a good question? How do you answer it?
- What kinds of questions most interested Socrates?
- The Socratic dialogues consisted of what kinds of conversations? Do you enjoy participating in such conversations?
- What did Socrates say about the unexamined life? What corollaries does Weiner propose? Do you think Socrates was wrong?
SOCRATES: Ought we to enquire into the truth of this, Euthyphro, or simply to accept the mere statement on our own authority and that of others? What do you say?
EUTHYPHRO: We should enquire; and I believe that the statement will stand the test of enquiry.
SOCRATES: We shall know better, my good friend, in a little while. The point which I should first wish to understand is whether the pious or holy is beloved by the gods because it is holy, or holy because it is beloved of the gods.
EUTHYPHRO: I do not understand your meaning, Socrates.
SOCRATES: I will endeavour to explain...
...Having thus brought his subject to a conclusion, Socrates proposes to bathe himself, in order not to trouble others to wash his dead body. Crito thereupon asks if he has any commands to give, and especially how he would be buried, to which he, with his usual cheerfulness, makes answer, "Just as you please, if only you can catch me;" and then, smiling, he reminds them that after death he shall be no longer with them, and begs the others of the party to be sureties to Crito for his absence from the body, as they had been before bound for his presence before his judges.
After he had bathed, and taken leave of his children and the women of his family the officer of the Eleven comes in to intimate to him that it is now time to drink the poison. Crito urges a little delay, as the sun had not yet set; but Socrates refuses to make himself ridiculous by showing such a fondness for life. The man who is to administer the poison is therefore sent for; and on his holding out the cup, Socrates, neither trembling nor changing color or countenance at all, but, as he was wont, looking steadfastly at the man, asked if he might make a libation to any one; and being told that no more poison than enough had been mixed, he simply prayed that his departure from this to another world might be happy, and then drank off the poison, readily and calmly. His friends, who had hitherto with difficulty restrained themselves, could no longer control the outward expressions of grief, to which Socrates said, "What are you doing, my friends? I, for this reason, chiefly, sent away the women, that they might not commit any folly of this kind; for I have heard that it is right to die with good omens. Be quiet, therefore, and bear up."
When he had walked about for a while his legs began to grow heavy, so he lay down on his back; and his body, from the feet upward, gradually grew cold and stiff. His last words were, "Crito, we owe a cock to Æsculapius; pay it, therefore, and do not neglect it."
"This," concludes Phædo, "was the end of our friend—a man, as we may say, the best of all his time, that we have known, and, moreover, the most wise and just." Phaedo
Phaedo audio...
*"When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -Elbert Hubbard, probably... and not Marcus Aurelius, though the Internet seems to think otherwise. Don't confuse him with looney L. Ron...
- What's one of the great unexplained wonders of human history?
- Do you agree that we cannot understand ourselves if we do not understand others?
- What was Descartes's "still pertinent" conclusion?
- Why did the Buddha think speculation about ultimate reality was fruitless?
- What aspects of western thought have most influenced global philosophy?
- What do Africans not have, according to Kwame Appiah?
I should have said Yes! The word is meliorism (closely related, in my philosophy as in WJ's, to possibility):
"...there are unhappy men who think the salvation of the world impossible. Theirs is the doctrine known as pessimism.
Optimism in turn would be the doctrine that thinks the world's salvation inevitable.
Midway between the two there stands what may be called the doctrine of meliorism, tho it has hitherto figured less as a doctrine than as an attitude in human affairs. Optimism has always been the regnant DOCTRINE in european philosophy. Pessimism was only recently introduced by Schopenhauer and counts few systematic defenders as yet. Meliorism treats salvation as neither inevitable nor impossible. It treats it as a possibility, which becomes more and more of a probability the more numerous the actual conditions of salvation become.
It is clear that pragmatism must incline towards meliorism..." Pragmatism by William James
Donyae Keeler Section 1
ReplyDelete1. A conversation was a success for Socrates if he managed to reveal how little the other person knew about topics they were confident on. He seemed to think that confidence killed curiosity by leading you to believe that you know it all and to stop asking questions.
2. Plato's theory of forms, I think that all people are influenced by their environment to think in certain ways that wouldn't stay consistent if they were to have been raised in another environment. All of our perceptions of reality are based on what we are taught that reality is, either by our society or our environment. A child born in a war-torn country is taught the life is violence, while a child born into wealth is taught that life is comfort.
3.To keep questioning everything. I think that it was not literal, and instead just a way to express how integral asking questions was to the identity of Socrates, if he ever stopped, he was no longer himself.
Your point on #3 is really interesting! I have not thought about it that way before.
DeleteI think many humans are “stuck in a cave.” For example, many people have a very closed mindset. Once they see or hear something, that becomes fact, and everything else becomes false. This can prevent people from seeing the whole truth if they never look elsewhere. This is what we see in Plato’s story of the cave. Whenever one of the prisoners breaks free, he goes back to the cave to tell everyone what he saw; however, no one believes him. Even though there is more outside of the “cave,” some people choose to stay in the cave. This could be for many reasons. Comfort in ignorance, rejection of truth, etc. Sometimes, it feels safer to stay in the cave than it does to face the outside world.
Delete- Jeremiah
Corbin Medley - Section 3
DeleteI love your example in question two of a child-born in a war torn country and their understand of the world, that is a fantastic analogy. Additionally, I believe the voice Socrates heard was as literal as a meta-physical conscience can get. His intellectual drive preventing him from sacrificing truth for "living."
Jack Bortz LHOP
ReplyDelete1. In the eyes of Socrates, a successful conversation concluded with the realization that little was truly known. I find this interesting in the way that it contrasts with modern debating and the different objectives of the two. I would argue that a conversation of this nature is not truly concluded until one can honestly say, "I do not know, but I would love to learn more." Along with this, Socrates rejected the mere knowing of facts being called wisdom. For him, wisdom was grasping the concept of the actual nature of the universe and the human limits for knowledge. I wholeheartedly agree with this. The wise one believes they know little and questions everything.
2. Plato's story of the cave is connected with his Theory of Forms. I would agree with this theory. This concept is applicable to the concepts of good and evil, moral and immoral, and other questions regarding more abstract ideas. Human senses can fail and betray, but forms are more consistent and honest.
3. Socrates said his "inner voice" was what told him to think the way he did and question the world. In a sense, I do believe it was literal, almost like my innate drive to make music. It is the "inner voice" that can know your passions and desires almost better than yourself. For Socrates, his inner voice seemed to be what told him what he was meant to do, which was question everything.
WEINER
1. The definition of "philosopher" is "lover of wisdom." In ancient Athens, philosophy was really self-transformation. It filled so many roles in the lives of people. It is a shame that it is not as widely seen this way in our modern day.
2. Albert Camus stated that suicide is the one truly serious philosophical problem. I would add that both harm to self and harm to others are serious philosophical problems.
3. Marcus Aurelius has been said to have reminded himself daily that he, as a human being, had to get up and go to work. This is very relatable. In reality this phrase was coined by Elbert Hubbard. I am curious as to your thoughts on this.
4. Needleman's first experienced question was "who created God." I have also experienced this question. I think it to be a very natural question for one to ask. I would honestly answer with "I am not sure, and I do not know if I ever could be."
5. "How" questions were what intrigued Socrates the most. I more often find myself asking "why."
6. The Socratic dialogues consisted of conversations that could be compared to conversations with a small child. It was the constant and often argumentative asking of "why" and "how do you know" until the ignorance of those conversing could be plainly seen. He aimed to then see the person he was talking to realize their ignorance, question their view of reality, and grow from it. I believe such conversations are an excellent way to grow as a thinker and person.
7. Socrates believed that the unexamined life is not worth living. Weiner proposes two corollaries in response to this:
1) "The examined life that doesn't produce practical results isn't worth living."
2) "The unexamined life may not be worth living but neither is the overexamined one."
I do not think Socrates was all wrong, but I would definitely agree more with Weiner regarding the examined and unexamined life.
I really enjoyed your answer to question 2 for Weiner because it reminds me of something I heard in a book once that went like "theft is the worst sin of all" and explained further by saying "when you lie you steal someone's right to the truth" and "when you kill someone you steal someone's right to enjoy living" which like you said opens up a whole can of worms philosophically.
DeleteThank you for sharing that! That is such an interesting concept and like you said really does open up a whole can of worms. I will have to think about this!
DeleteKaitlyn Young section 2
DeleteSuicide really is such a complex philosophical problem, anything regarding intense sadness that would lead to harming oneself. I feel like the big question in a case like that is, what are the moral problems with stopping someone from harming themselves. We know the obvious ones when it comes to not stopping someone but the flipside i feel is a harder question to answer.
Matthew Lowe, section 2
DeleteI really liked your take on Weiner #7. It helped my clear up some confusion, and I do agree with you. A life of continuous critical thinking and reflection can, in some cases, prevent us from seeing things as they are.
Bella York, Section 3
ReplyDelete3. What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal?
Socrates’ inner voice urged him to ask deep, prodding questions. These questions were considered annoying by his fellow citizens because they made uncertain the previously obvious truths in their lives.
Since this part of Socrates’ personality was so integral to his self perception and communal reputation, his inner voice was a very real character in his mind. Without listening to this inner voice, Socrates would betray who he was as a person. This must have been a burden to him at some points, as we can see when his refusal to stop questioning ended with his execution.
Gracyn Schmidt Section 1
DeleteI think your perspective is very valuable. I agree that it is likely that his inner voice likely challenged the perspectives of the time and led to his ultimate execution.
Mackenzie McDonald, section 3
ReplyDelete5. Socrates was most interested in the questions that asked "How".
2. Plato's story of the cave is connected to his theory of forms. When I was in high school we actually read Platos' allegory and did a project on it at the end of the year. We had to write an essay on parallels we could make to today's society and the story. My essay was on religion. The main parallel I drew was with the people in the cave seeing shadows on the wall and blindly believing they were dangerous and would stop them from leaving the cave. Oftentimes people who grew up in religious families just follow the religion their parents do without actually learning about others or using their own judgements. In this way they can be trapped in a metaphorical cave. Whether their religion is the "correct" one or not, I feel like they are doing themselves a disservice by not learning about others.
ReplyDeletekaitlyn young section 2
DeleteI think it's really interesting that you draw from religion, because that is the biggest example in my mind of people looking at shadows and seeing a reality. I do feel like there is a slight difference, while many believe in God or another example of him, I do feel like there is an underlying doubt, even though people believe in him.
I like your correlation with not learning about other religions. I think an example could be (some) modern day christians calling other faith traditions "demonic". I believe that all religions have beautiful aspects to them, that are easily missed when you shun them and label them as the Devil.
Delete-Skylar
I really appreciate your connection with Religion acting as the cave that many people stay within. I think that willful ignorance about the world through a religious lens is one of the more limiting things people often do. I don't think it's wrong to at least learn about other religions even if you decide that your childhood religion is the one for you if that makes sense. I think a lot of intolerance comes from those who do not take the time to explore different perspectives.
Delete3. Socrate's innner voice told him to question everything. I do feel like this is literal in a sense. His inner voice is himself and in the back of his mind he is always telling himself to questions things because that's just how his brain is wired. It's probably not an actual voice he hears in his head all the time, but more something he keeps in mind when going about his life.
ReplyDeleteI took the inner voice in a similar direction, I interpreted that part as an exaggeration that boils down to Socrates's confidence in himself. Though he kept saying he knew nothing, I believe that he believed in himself and his methods. He was pursuing wisdom in a way he was very sure of and it was that assurance that made him unafraid to die.
DeleteCorbin Medley - Section 3
DeleteI agree that Socrates' inner voice was literal as much as a meta-physical conscience can be. He was a truth driven man who refused to live a life empty of intellectual honesty and wonder.
1. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
ReplyDeletea successful conversation for Socrates would be one that confused or made someone think about a truth or idea they already believed. Wisdom in Socrates eyes was not really having the knowledge of everything, but more so the knowledge of your own limits both physically and mentally I assume.
2. What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
Plato's cave story would have to be connected with his theory of forms in which we are never privy to the truth of the world but rather shadows of the truth. I do personally agree with Plato on his theory but I do not believe that all humans are naturally stuck in his hypothetical "cave". On the other hand I can say that I have met a fair share of people who live as though the shadows they see, and sometimes even give off, are nothing but absolute truth.
3. What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal?
Socrates said that his inner voice warned him against his own mistakes or actions that would cause him harm or shame. In the sense that Socrates describes it I believe the "inner voice" is a literal voice that he hears because it sounds very similar to something that I (and probably many others) call an inner monologue in which another version of my voice speaks my own thoughts to myself. With the understanding of my own inner monologue I do not believe it's out of the realm of possibility that Socrates his own literal "inner voice" that may have just worked differently than mine.
Another thing to point out about Socrates's conversations is that he never told anyone why they should believe something, but instead always made them think for themselves. For example, look at the conversation with Euthydemus. When he asked Euthydemus if being deceitful counted as being immoral, Euthydemus immediately responded that it did. However, Socrates didn't just quickly respond, "Well, you're wrong and you should believe this." Instead, he gave Euthydemus an example to relate to. By letting Euthydemus reconsider, Socrates was able to prove his point without having to blatantly tell him to believe something else. Isn't that interesting?
Delete- Jeremiah
I found your second point interesting when you stated that you, "do not believe that all humans are naturally stuck in [Plato's] hypothetical 'cave'." If all humans aren't naturally stuck what makes them stuck? what sets the humans that aren't naturally stuck apart from the ones that are? Is there any way they can get "unstuck" or see reality, or are certain people born with that ability and others aren't? - Antonella Comaschi section 3
DeleteI feel like people become “stuck” when they just believe what they see or are told without giving any second thought (basically like being complacent). Then in exchange, people who are “unstuck” ask more questions and try to see the bigger picture.
DeleteNOTE TO ALL:
ReplyDeleteTry to focus on Discussion Questions, or formulate them yourself, rather than repeating the same factual answer that classmates have already supplied about the assigned text. There's no need, for instance, to keep repeating Socrates's definition of a successful conversation, after someone else has already answered that correctly. But DO comment on what you think about it: Do you agree with Socrates on that point? Why or why not? Etc.
Matthew Kulik, Section 3
ReplyDelete1. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
To Socrates, wisdom was largely about realizing the limits of what you think you know and questioning far beyond surface level. In the text it says that Socrates felt a conversation was successful if the person felt confused and didn't have answers. When this happened, it can be said that he was making the people he spoke to more wise because following the conversation they had a better understanding of the limits of their knowledge and had thought deeper than they had before, hence why he would consider these conversations successful. While I do agree that questioning, reasoning, and understanding limitation are crucial to having wisdom, I feel like this definition (or at least the way it's framed) downplays the role of knowledge itself in wisdom. While knowledge alone does not imply wisdom as the text states, having it does lay the ground work to be able to question what you know and understand the intricacies of the knowledge you have.
I agree with your observation that Socrates' definition of wisdom downplays the importance of knowledge in wisdom. However, I believe he thought this way because, during that time period, most people were fed a vast amount of knowledge by their religions, governments, and communities, but they had little freedom to think on their own. If they were able to think for themselves and form opinions, it was dangers for the governments and religion, as they could begin to disagree. Therefore, that's why people were so appalled by Socrates' ideas. - Antonella Comaschi section 3
DeleteAshton Vincent, Section 1:
ReplyDeleteLHP - 3: Socrates 'inner voice' 'told' him to keep questioning. I do not think this is a literal 'inner voice' telling him to do things. I mean, maybe, he might've heard voices. But I interpret it as his soul or his purpose in life. How people are pulled to do or study different things. I believe that questioning everything was something so deeply embedded in him as a person, and so integral to his being that he simply couldn't be him if he couldn't do that. I think everyone has that pull or passion, and a major part of life is discovering what that is for them personally.
Weiner - 2: Camus says that suicide is the one truly serious philosophical problem. I whole-heartedly agree. I believe that if one struggles with that problem, it impacts everything else in life. It is one of- if not the- core value of someone. To me, It determines your choices, thoughts, and who you are as a person.
Weiner - 4: Needleman's first question he experienced was, "Who created God?" Assuming it's referring to the Christian, capital-g God, then yes, I have experienced it. I think it is a very important and often necessary question that people should consider. I believe that there are two types of answers: a practical one and a more belief-sided one. I struggle with answering this, and I usually find myself between answers. Not to mention the question itself, what it is truly referencing when it says "God."
Jay Triplett - Section 2
ReplyDeleteWHP 2 - Regarding Plato's theory of forms, I think that many people are metaphorically "stuck in the cave", because it takes a lot of uncomfortable reflection to discern what the "shadows" are and what reality is. And most people are content with staying "in the cave" because they see nothing wrong with it. While Plato found this to make for a weak or uncritical mind, I think there's also a sense of futility to constantly searching for a nebulous, perfect definition of concepts like "good" or "evil". Should people strive to identify these forms, or is it better to find better and closer examples to emulate these forms, like a ladder leading infinitely closer to perfection?
Weiner 2 - I disagree with the emphasis Camus puts on the question "is life worth living", or rather, how the question is phrased. No matter what, we will live until we die. The answer to Camus' "one true question" doesn't matter, because we will live anyway (until we don't). I think a more productive question would be "how do we make a life worth living?" The one thing we can control, unlike life or death, is our actions.
Other - While reading about Socrates, I questioned why he was put to death for "corrupting the youth". Thinking more about this, I realized that a fear of knowledge pervades our thousands of years of political history. Since kindergarten, it's been ingrained in my mind that "knowledge is power", but why? Why have governments used access to knowledge to promote or discriminate against their populations? Socrates' questioning of trained professionals shows us that questions have the power to illuminate the gaps in a person's so-called "wisdom". These people knew much more about their particular fields than the average Athenian, but they were not as wise as they claimed. Perhaps this shakes the foundation of a hierarchical government, and that's why we see such a trend in political history.
Kaitlyn Young section 2
Deletesilencing people who "corrupt our youth" has always been a trend. When someone or a group of people come forward with a new idea that challenges that of societal norms it puts people into a fight or flight mode. Especially when it comes to religion, i feel as though if someone questions God's existence, people automatically try to convince you otherwise rather than listening to your viewpoints and broadening their understanding of religion ans what it is to other people.
Section 1
DeleteJay, I really liked what you said about "good" and "evil"-- such gray concepts to even identify in the world... And when you brought up how people might even feel comforted by the shadows in the cave, I believe that many people might even feel comforted that there is "absolute" good and evil. I personally believe it's an optimistic (albeit unrealistic) view of a world where tragedies, miracles, horrors, and blessings take place. However, it is concerning when it comes to taking action in this unforgivingly abundant society-- is that person in the cave going to see a woman kill her abuser and call her evil, because many cultures teach that killing is wrong? Will they see a corrupt official giving support to small businesses during an election campaign and call him good, because many traditions implore their believers to help those in need? Gray everywhere.
The point you made about a fear of knowledge was really insightful. I think it's evident in much of the United States' history that people who use their knowledge to create a movement are looked down upon and called "disruptors". They're often cast in a negative light by those in power because if they gain too much traction, those currently in power might not be anymore. I think any attack on education is a blatant example of trying to snuff out a population of those who are smart enough to leave the cave.
Delete2. Thinking about Plato's cave story, I compared it to today's use of media and how fabricated things can be. In a sense, most people are prisoners in the cave, being manipulated by today's use of media and entertainment to spread misinformation or hateful comments. Some people will see something on social media and immediately believe it (my parents are sometimes victims of that...). I would say that "breaking free" involves digging deeper and conducting independent research on what you are seeing. Almost EVERYONE is on social media/has access to the news, and they can be fed any information posted. Just something I connected it with to help me visualize a present day example.
ReplyDelete3. I was thinking about Socrates's "inner voice" after reading the chapter. Instead of an actual "voice" speaking to him, I believe it's more of him feeling compelled (his "life purpose"). I think some people feel this "calling" to do something, whether it be a career, a hobby, etc. Since Socrates questioned everything, I wonder if he felt he would be giving up all he worked for if he were given the chance to live and not question again (all he worked for would be for nothing). I think I've heard his inner voice being named "daimonion." Although asking questions put him to death, he believed that following one's "inner moral guide" was a more meaningful way to live. I admire his dedication to his work and to his students.
1. Socrates' successful conversation would leave you unsettled, confused, and questioning everything. Quite different from what you would expect out of an everyday trip to the market. Socrates wanted to poke at what you knew, and cause you to realize that you actually didn't know everything that you thought you did. He overturned the foundation of what you thought you knew, by washing away the assumptions and shallow beliefs you had. I like that Socrates caused people to question their beliefs, and I like that he wanted to reveal that people often didn't put further thought into things. I can also see why he viewed himself as annoying. He seems like quite the yapper.
ReplyDeleteSocrates perceives wisdom not as facts and knowledge, but the acknowledgement that we don't have all of the knowledge, and we don't know all of the facts.
2. Plato's story of the cave is related to his theory of forms. This is the theory that there is an invisible world of true ideas and intellect which is imperfectly reflected into our fallacious physical world. In other words, we never know the full truth, we only see bits and pieces: half truths. There are people, and definitely myself, that are stuck in the metaphorical cave. The internet is the clearest example. It is the wall that we are chained to look at, and the news stories, posts, and videos we see almost never contain the full truth.
3. Socrates' inner voice tells him to keep questioning everything. I think the inner voice describes his ultimate belief and passion. Being a philosopher was so deeply rooted into Socrates that it kept him curious and questioning until his unfortunate end.
I forgot to add it when I originally wrote this, Skylar Bishop, section 3.
DeleteMalcolm Ashley from section 3
Delete2. I definitely agree with the feeling of being stuck in the "metaphorical cave". The fear of missing out on certain opportunities combined comparision on social media/ with your peers does NOT make it any better. Just taking a step back and realizing your not behind and your only competing against yourself, can help to start to shift your perspective.
LHP
ReplyDelete1. I think Socrates conveyed that confidence was the killer of a growth mindset. People he had interviewed like the military commander or the people who would eventually call for his execution were all confident and "certain" of things they perceived to be true. Antithetical to Socrates' nature, they never dug deeper than what surface level questions could inspire. One cannot witness these exchanges and not compare them to people today. Many intellectuals and those who are not so can be seen clinging dogmatically onto beliefs and "truths" that they wish not to further expand upon (when it comes to validity or evidence).
Since philosophy is about "loving wisdom"-- and since wisdom is guidance on purpose, meaning, worth, or instruction in life-- Socrates encouraging thoughtful conversation rang less about semantics or just asking "why". It implored people to reach for a better understanding or the wanting of understanding in their own lives. He did not want the shallow answers that we give without truly thinking about his questions, without putting forth our hearts and souls towards his questions.
If the answer to the meaning and value of our lives is as simple as the meaning of a word in the dictionary, how should our attitudes reflect living that life?
Wisdom, to the King of Questions, was to wonder. And if Socrates was confident about anything, it was about his own lack of knowing.
Section 1
DeleteHWT
5. The early Greek philosophers (on which much of western thought has been based) were proponents of rationalism. I cannot imagine what it must have felt like back then to be surrounded by mythological beliefs and traditions, yet still be some of the first people to seek reasoning and meaning out of life besides that. Even if the gods and lore could have been explained or coped with in their philosophical musings, the mental aerobics they'd have executed must've been tremendous. That struggle with rationalism continued until Christianity came into the picture, a religion which slammed the door on much of what it deemed to be heretical. Yet again, rationalism in philosophy blossomed out of silencing and has affected much of the subject today. If we think about modern advancements in other fields, as well, I do not believe that we, as a species, would be nearly as developed or dominating over the Earth. Most improvements and beginnings in science had to come from reason, right? Without someone looking for a physical explanation for the world around us, or at least looking for ways to utilize this planet we are so lucky to have, we would have never gotten cars, airplanes, most medicines, rockets, programming, mechanical engineering, etc, etc, etc.
Another concept of modern thought that has affected philosophy is individualism, especially in freedom-loving America. And I suppose this ties into rationalism, as well. Since we can experience life here on Earth and we have rationalized that we are all human, and that (as Greek philosopher Socrates loved to mention) we collectively don't really know everything, what's to stop one from going to find the answers on their own? That would also just be the equivalent of living life how one sees fit. One's priority over their own wants and needs over the groups'. No obligation to a greater picture (if the individual so chooses. Their loyalty can remain anywhere or nowhere.) I found it interesting in HWT how the author relayed the information about Kyoto School not teaching individualism. This is like the other side of the affects of western thought-- if it doesn't correlate with a culture's majorly accepted custom or belief, many people in that culture won't entertain it. Not to put Japan into a box, but the country is known for its group-orientated mentality, especially when it comes to school and work.
Mackenzie Harris from section 2
ReplyDeleteLHP:
1. Leaving people not knowing what they thought they knew was a successful conversation to him. Wisdom to Socrates was knowing the reason of our existence. I would say that I would agree with that statement because everyone was put on this earth for a reason you just have to find your purpose in life.
2. The story of the cave is connected to Plato's Theory of Forms. I do think that some humans are "stuck in a cave" because they live life with a blind eye. I feel like some people think well if it is not happening to me then it's happening to no one.
3. Socrates Inner voice told him to question everything. I do think everyone has that inner voice which is the subconscious that tells you what is right and wrong, but I think in the context of the sentence it means that Socrates knew that this is what he was meant to do in life, and he wasn't going to betray himself.
Malcolm Ashley from section 3
Delete1. I found your answer to this question in alignment with what i agree with too. People often question the meaning of life and think it is some set in stone concrete answer that we haven't found, when in reality i believe you have do what fulfills you.
1. I agree with Socrates's definition of wisdom - understanding the true nature of human existence. However, I think that there is another step missing from this definition. To be considered wise, you have to use that understanding and knowledge to help others. Many philosophers claimed that they were wise, but then isolated themselves. However, did they really use their knowledge? They might have learned something, but they never passed it on. To me, wisdom means knowing how to use the truth to guide and uplift others.
ReplyDelete- Jeremiah
Kate Pennel. section 1.
ReplyDelete2. What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
Plato's story is connected with the theory of forms. It seems that his theory of everyone stuck in the cave of what appears to be reality except the philosophers who "understand what the world is truly like" results in a very prideful idea of a perfect society (LHP 5). Plato's story of the cave resulted in a desire for a totalitarian state with philosophers at the head, with complete and total power over the citizens. "Plato thought that letting the people vote was like letting
the passengers steer a ship", underlining his self-centeredness and pride (LHP 6). This disregard of unique human experience and intelligence leads me not to agree with the cave model and that everyone is experiencing life at a lower level than philosophers. However, while some people may live their lives in a lackadaisical fashion, I still would not see them as chained to a cave wall refusing to believe someone who has seen the light. This metaphor has another problem, which is that there are only two views of life, the appearance of it and the reality of it. However, this in itself is an issue, as who is Plato to decide what the reality of life is? Or one group of people in general, such as the philosophers? While it is true that they are known for thinking the most deeply about life, this again disregards the intelligence value and the depth of personal experience that every unique individual has.
1. "Philosopher" means what? Philosophy was what, in ancient Athens? (Introduction)
ReplyDeleteThe word “philosopher” is derived from a Greek word, “philosophos.” It is translated as “lover of wisdom.” To the Athenians, philosophy was a continual pursuit of wisdom (not to be confused with knowledge).
“Get wisdom —
How much better it is than gold!
And get understanding —
It is preferable to silver”
Proverbs 16:16 CSB
5. What kinds of questions most interested Socrates?
Socrates loved a question that was deceiving in nature. One which seemed to have an obvious answer yet only led to more questions. When investigating apparent fundamentals of life, one cracks the facade of truth. This can be distressing to some, but if seen through to the end, provides meaning to life.
Bella York section 3
DeleteEric Youngkins, Section 3
ReplyDelete1. Socrates had a way of intertwining wisdom and ignorance. A person who believes that they are wise about the world is likely to be ignorant and yet a person who recognizes just how ignorant they are and makes the decision to question their surroundings will consequently gain wisdom. I find it fascinating that Socrates never wrote anything down because he believed that wisdom could only be shared through a conversational basis. I think this reveals that his intentions were never to inform people, but rather to shake up their perceptions and ideas.
2. Plato's story of the cave, otherwise represented by his theory of forms, can be applied to essentially all aspects of humanity: religion, politics, morality, etc. But more than all of these, Plato's allegory reminds me of our relationship with the cosmos. Despite all of our scientific advances and discoveries, there is so much in the universe that we are forced to be ignorant to, simply because our current perception cannot observe all that there is. Perhaps we will never learn the secrets of the universe. But, I personally see a strong comparison between the shadows on the wall in the cave and the images that we see in telescopes.
3. My theory is that Socrates's inner voice was fueled by the same fire that makes an artist paint or a musician play. Perhaps he was a conduit of universal expression, in the form of a bizarre, curious, smelly man. While I do not believe it possible to properly identify the sort of force that motivates people to express ideas in the way that they do, there is no doubt that Socrates was put on Earth to ask questions. And he did this so well that he met his demise for it. But despite his unfortunate end, his "purpose" was fulfilled and his teachings are still talked about millennia after his time.
Stone Sakson Section 1.
ReplyDelete2. What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
I somewhat believe that we all start life in a "cave" as Plato describes it in his "story of the cave". I think we start life with an understanding of the world that is shown to us by our senses. This creates a limited understanding that can only be increased through one's own desire to attain wisdom or hidden truths. The ability to consciously think past surface level observations and develop deeper understandings of what is occurring is something that is not guaranteed to everyone naturally, therefore they are like the prisoners in the cave.
Gracyn Schmidt
ReplyDeleteSection 1
2. Plato's cave story is connected to his Theory of Forms. I think in an most ways humans are "stuck in a cave." Humans have a limited sense of perspective and may only be seeing parts of the full picture, similar to the shadows on the wall allegory. Studying subjects like philosophy is a humanly attempt to exit the cave.
Weiner 1. Simply, philosophy means "lover of wisdom." However, in ancient athens, it was not simply a subject but rather a way of life and represented asking questions and using logic instead of relying on blind faith.
Emily Litzenberger Section 2.
ReplyDeleteLHP 1
1. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
The way Socrates viewed wisdom was to be curious. Such as Eric said in a comment above, Socrates didn't believe in limited knowledge and perception but instead would rather believe that people were ignorant in their chosen knowledge just because they didn't go beyond it. As such wisdom is more about knowing when to question your own knowledge instead of believing yourself to be wise in what you already know. I'd like to believe that Socrates was a conversationalist not because he didn't like to write, but because his questions would become the root of thinking for many years through his students as they formulate their own questions about wisdom.
2. What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
Plato's theory of forms applies to a lot of people nowadays. The cave story makes it seem that people will only believe what they perceive in front of them instead of questioning how it came to be or what's inside that very perception of it. Humans are "stuck in caves" because of ignorance and acceptance of what is "normal". I believe if you go beyond what's "normal", everything will become less blurred. It'd be like seeing the reality you've lived in for the very first time.
Weiner
1. I agree with Gracyn when it comes to believing it was a way of life for them, however, I'd like to question how they would go about it? It's clear you can't question too much because of how Socrates was put to death, so it begs the question if their philosophy was controlled or free.
Austin Clark Section 1
ReplyDeleteLHP 1
1. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom? Socrates believed that for people to truly discover the meaning behind the way they were thinking was to not limit themselves to the surface of their thoughts, instead he challenged people to think deeper about their thoughts.
2.What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave? The theory Platos story of the cave connects to a lot of society of a whole today. Especially with the use of media people can be quick to make assumptions as to what they believe without truly forming and understanding their own thoughts due to their own ignorance.
3. What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal? His inner voice told him to question everything, and I think that Socrates knew all along that this was what he was meant to do with his life and he wasn't going to silence his questions and thoughts for the rest of his time.
Matthew Martin Section 3
ReplyDelete1: What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal?
Socrates referred to his inner voice not as commands concerning what he should do, rather it kept him from doing what was wrong. I feel this wasn't a real voice commanding him in what he should or should not do. It was an assertive sense of moral intuition informing his choices. This seems the most likely to me because all of us have had an experience where something doesn't quite feel right even if we can't explain why. Socrates's account makes you wonder if those gut reactions are a kind of wisdom or if in some instances, they can betray you.
2: What kinds of questions most interested Socrates?
Socrates dealt with questions concerning what humans should do with their lives, what it means to do the right thing, and how we can live a good life. He didn't give answers; he encouraged people to think about what they believed and test those beliefs in conversation. I find it compelling that he emphasized practical choices and values over abstract theories. His questioning implies that truth is not a matter of facts at all. It is a matter of finding contradictions in our living and making ourselves consistent.
3: Do you agree that we cannot understand ourselves if we do not understand others?
I agree in saying we can't really know ourselves unless we attempt to grasp others as well. Morals, identity, even our own sense of self are formed in what communities or associations we are a part of. As Socrates raised questions in other people, he wasn't merely holding up their ignorance for inspection. He also employed those discussions in sharpening his own thoughts. As such, it shows how social comprehension is intertwined with self-knowledge. That leads me to think open conversation with other people is a prime means for determining who we are ourselves.
I liked the comment that Weiner made about living wrong if we do not know how to discriminate wisdom from other, more fleeting, qualities. He said loud is often mistaken for correct and that urgent is often mistaken for important. This stood out to me because of todays social media-centric culture where the trending topic or thing can seem to be the most world-ending or catastrophic thing. Many celebrities, influencers, and companies make their living on being the loudest in the room and making people care about what they have to say when in reality it's rather inconsequential to the masses. I was wondering if anyone else has an interpretation of that quote?
ReplyDeleteAntonella Comaschi - Section 3
ReplyDeleteIn the first chapter, I found it intriguing that Socrates is nothing like we would perceive a philosopher today. He is described as ugly, unwashed, and annoying. I wonder if that was common in his society, or what was reasoning for presenting himself that way. He was described as someone with great wisdom, so you would assume he knew that the way he presented himself would affect the way people treated him.
Corbin Medley, Section 3
ReplyDelete1. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
A successful conversation in Socrates' eyes was one where he would philosophically best the individual he was speaking with, encouraging them to re-evaluate their moral and literal understanding of the world. He wanted people to recognize how little they truly know beyond a superficial understanding. This ties into his definition of wisdom - wisdom is understanding the nature of existence and recognizing our limits of knowledge rather than attempting to have an answer for everything.
2. What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
Plato's cave story is related to his Theory of Forms, in which he emphasizes that people do not truly have an understanding of the world, as they are content at seeing that which is presented to them rather than developing intellectual thought. I believe there are far too many people who are "Stuck in caves" and refuse to develop a sense of understanding or independent thoughts based on critical thinking and information; rather preferring to digest whatever is spoon-fed to them by their preferred people - never questioning or re-evaluating.
3. What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal?
His inner voice told him to question everything. I believe the inner voice is as literal as an inner voice can be - a conscience if anything literal in the meta-physical sense. And I believe people who share Socrates' intellectual integrity hear the same alluring voice that drives them to find the truth(s) of reality.
Corbin Medley, Section 3
DeleteTo expand on my thoughts on question one. I agree with Socrates that wisdom is tied into modesty and an uncorrupted desire to seek truth beyond the means of what is represented at a glance. I think that is the foundation of intellectual thought.
Weiner 2. Camus says that the “one truly serious philosophical problem” is suicide. I’m curious as to what the definition of serious is in this context, Without any further knowledge, I agree with him. Suicide is the one serious philosophical problem because it is the only one that directly puts the philosopher’s life in danger. As for the question that goes with it, “is life worth living or not?”, I think it’s 50/50. There are two options here, living life, and not living life. I personally don’t remember anything prior to my conception, so to me, pre-life is like being asleep. You have no consciousness. It is not good or bad, it is just nothing. In life, there are very very good things, which might make you think that life is worth living, and there are very very bad things, which might make you think the opposite. If the good cancels out the bad, then living is as neutral as not living. If your life is easy and fun, you would choose life. If your life has been littered with tragedy, you would probably pick not-living. I think it depends on each individual person.
ReplyDeleteSkylar Bishop, section 3.
Addison Baird- Section 2
ReplyDelete1. Successful conversation was one that you left as confused where you realize the limits of what you know and what you thought you know are different. I agree that a successful conversation is just this: learning more. Whether it be tearing down misconceptions or knowledge that you thought you had or asking questions that you didn’t think to ask before this can lead to a more wise society and leave people more knowledgeable and better off because of these successful conversations
2.The theory of the caves is somewhat true, although it seems very elitist. It is important for our world leaders to be educated, however, the belief that only philosophers can do the job would create tension between philosophers and everyone else.
3. Socrates' inner voice can very much be literal as many people can think as voices in their head. It’s a manifestation of his curiosity or consciousness as a philosopher.
Allie Stanfield (section #2)
ReplyDelete1. When Socrates spoke about a successful conversation, he was referring to one where he left the other person confused about what they thought they knew. In a way, he demonstrated to people that they should be more humble. One who thought they knew a lot was quickly shown they did not after a conversation with Socrates. He showed people that they should be digging deeper into their thoughts and not going along with what others tell them.
2. Plato's story about the cave is connected to his own Theory of Forms. I agree with him, to a certain extent. Many people believe whatever others will tell them, staying stuck in that "cave" instead because it is easier than questioning what is true.
3.Socrates "inner voice" was his inner motivation telling him to keep exploring. I think everyone has different opinions on what that could be, depending on their perspective and viewpoints. Religious individuals could say it is a higher power leading them to their destined path, and others might say it is their subconscious speaking to them.
Addison McCammon section #3
ReplyDelete2. Plato’s cave metaphor is related to his Theory of Forms. The people in the cave relied too heavily on their senses, and thus believed the shadows were reality. However, Plato argues against this way of thinking and urges people to focus on the concept or idea of something rather than their previous experiences, as those are “imperfect.” I agree with the idea that people are “stuck in a cave” or rather they tend to rely too heavily on what they have already experienced as their basis for “reality.” If the philosopher is the one who escapes the cave, then he is also the one who can understand the Form of something rather than relying on how his past has taught him to understand it. To reach fulfillment you must allow yourself to grow, adapt and change your way of thinking, and therefore you must also cast aside your previous conceptions of how you thought the world to be.
3. Before rising, Marcus reminded himself of his “duty” (rather than his obligation) to get out of bed. I appreciate this word choice because, as the book points out, it inflicts a sense of personal desire rather than an external force driving Marcus to get out of bed. It can be argued that Philosophy is all about betterment of oneself and ways of thinking (though the idea of what constitutes “bettering yourself” could be further argued). Therefore, doing something because it is your “duty” is all a part of the process of becoming a “better” philosopher.
6. Conversations with Socrates often consisted of him unravelling a topic in such a way that whoever he was speaking to was forced to confront the reality of their own ignorance. No one enjoys being backed into an intellectual corner, but it is through tough conversations like these that we can truly examine a concept and choose a path forward. For example, “What defines a good person?” Responding that a good person is merely someone who helps others is not enough. In creating a more concrete definition, one can better understand their reality and forge a path forward. It is only once you have a clear sense of who you are now, that you can see the person you might one day become.
Philopateer Iskandar section 3
ReplyDelete1. A conversation for him was always argumentative he would find somebody you had a lot of experience in their respective field and then would argue them about always leaving that person who was so sure of themselves left questioning themselves and what it all meant. he always walked away the victor from each of these conversations I believe this was a success for him.
2. I believe the theory with the cave was that people who are brought raised in a specific way will never truly be able to break out the way the were raised.
is inner voice kept saying to always question everything and don't stop asking and always find the answer to everything of course it is not a voice inside of him but it was what drove him to keep going and was a major part of his life.
Philopateer Iskandar section 3
ReplyDeleteCamus said that the only serious question was whether should take their own life or not. The reason it is so serious is because a major part of philosophy resolves around the meaning of life so taking away one's own life is incredibly serious. I do agree with him that this is a serious topic.
LHP
ReplyDeleteThe discussion with Euthydemus was a success for Socrates, because he got his friend to question life at the end of their conversation, as Euthydemus realized how little he knew. Socrates realized that wisdom is not knowing facts, but understanding the true nature of our existence.
Plato’s story of the cave is connected with his Theory of Forms. I think that all humans are stuck in a cave, because they only see what the media tells them to see, but social media has helped shed light on more situations.
Socrates said that his inner voice told him to keep questioning everything, and that if he had to live quietly it was better to die. I think his inner voice is not literal, but his subconscious.
Weiner
Philosopher means lover of wisdom.
Camus said that the one truly serious philosophical problem was suicide, and I agree because suicide means ending life, and philosophy is about understanding life.
Every dawn is a rebirth.
Who Am I? I think it is a good question because I sometimes need to be reminded of my purpose and goals. I answer it by journaling my inner monologue.
Socrates was interested in the how questions.
Questions to promote critical thinking and uncover underlying beliefs. I do enjoy philosophical conversations.
Socrates said that the unexamined life was not worth living. Weiner proposes that the unexamined life is not worth living, neither is the overexamined one, but the examined one in small doses is.
1. I agree we cannot understand ourselves without understanding others. Having an open perspective and attempting to be an understanding person allows you to receive multiple perspectives that shape your everyday point of view. It can affect your mindset, how you react, and why you act in the way you do. 2. Socrates was most interested in asking questions that cause self reflection and observing people come to their own conclusion about their past. 3. A philosopher is a person seeking wisdom or knowledge to gain insight on their understanding of the world. In Ancient Greek, philosophy was viewed as a systematic search of knowledge.
ReplyDelete