Final Blog Post - Brendan Dye (Section 12)

 Hello everyone, I’m here today with the acclaimed writers/philosophers John Kaag and Susan Neiman, and I’m going to be conducting an interview. Joining us as a special guest is the famous philosopher Immanuel Kant, who was able to join us today thanks to a random person in the future who, after reading a transcription of this interview, decided that Kant would have some valuable additions to the conversation and used his own personal time machine to bring him here. Mr. Kant will be returned to his time following the interview.

Me: We have a lot of ground to cover and I know you will all have a lot to say, so I’ll go ahead and start with the first question. What does it mean to grow up? Furthermore, why should we? Susan, would you like to begin the conversation?

Susan Neiman: Thanks, Brendan. This is a great question, and I’d recommend anyone who is interested in answering it in depth should read my book, Why Grow Up? I’ll start by saying that growing up can mean a lot of things, and anyone who says there is one hard and fast definition of grown up is probably wrong. I can easily tell you what it is not; it isn’t a form of resignation, acceptance that life isn’t what you thought it was but is in fact much more boring and painful, combined with an unwillingness to do anything to change that. This is probably the type of “grown up” I see most often today, but this view is just as immature as an idealistic, dogmatic acceptance of everything you’ve ever been taught, or a failure to recognize the difference between how things “should be” and how they are. Growing up, at its core, is really somewhere between these two schools of thought, when one can accept that things are not as they should be while not losing sight of ideals, yet acknowledge the influence they have over the world and the way things are.

Kant: These are some valid points, Susan, and I tend to agree with what you are saying. I would like to add that I believe growing up to be a matter of willpower, or courage, rather than a matter of knowledge. It would be easy to say that if you aren’t grown up you just need to learn more, but there is much more to it than that. Knowledge can only get a person so far; at some point one has to decide to grow up, or have the courage see the world as it is and do what one can to make it into more of what one would ideally have it be.

John Kaag: Kant, I fully agree with you that growing up is a matter of choice and takes courage. Growing up can mean a lot of different things to different people, but at its core it involves deciding that your life is worth living and finding your own reasons for doing whatever it is you choose to do with your life.

Me: Sorry to interrupt you here John, but this is a perfect segue into our second question. Since your book, Sick Souls, Healthy Minds focuses on William James’ thoughts on the issue, you can answer first. The question is, what makes life worth living?

Kaag: An interesting question. I believe William James would say there are many things that could make life worth living. However, what’s really important for someone struggling, as James often did, with the question of whether or not life is worth living, is that they find something that does make it worth it. James was a pragmatist, so according to him, if something makes life worth living for someone, then that is what makes life worth living. For one person it might be religion, for another it could be art, for another it could be human interaction. No matter what the reason is, a person struggling with the question must be willing to find an answer. It takes work and determination, but if you seek something to make life worth living, you will find it. If nothing else, for some people the search for purpose itself might be the purpose; in other words, looking for a reason that life is worth living might, in and of itself, make life worth living.

Neiman: I would say that growing up is what makes life worth living. Realizing that the world is not how it should be according to what you believe, and also realizing that it is partially in your power to change that, can be a powerful motivator. Once someone has grown up, the world opens up to them, as opposed to someone who believes that life is all bad and that they have no power to change that, or someone who spends their life trying to make the world fit into their ideals like a square peg in a round hole.

Kant: I agree with John here that there are a lot of things that could make worth living, but the important thing is to find a reason. It’s your life and you get to determine why it’s worth it for you, and that fact alone makes it worth it to me.

Me: Thank you all for your time, this has been a very insightful conversation. Susan and John, I really enjoyed your books and got a lot from them, and I’d highly recommend them to any of you in the audience who are interested in philosophy or life in general.