Questions pertaining to the assigned reading will normally be posted prior to each class.Always share your thoughts in the comments space below each day's post (at least three comments per class, so you can shade the whole diamond on the scorecard when you come to class and receive full participation credit each time... more than that gets you extra credit). Give yourself a base on the scorecard for every question you posted a response to before class. (You can also respond to your own questions(s) or your classmates' posted comments. Respond not merely with the authors' textual statements but also with your own thoughts & reflections.) 25 exam questions will pertain to the required texts. Additional bonus questions pertaining to the recommended texts will also appear.
1. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
- "Philosopher" means what? Philosophy was what, in ancient Athens? (Introduction)
- What did Camus say is the one truly serious philosophical problem? Do you agree?
- What did Marcus Aurelius need, at dawn, to remind himself of? (And ask me about his morning mantra, which I daily remind myself of. UPDATE: Turns out it wasn't Marcus, but a 19th century American named Elbert Hubbard, whose morning mantra* has been falsely attributed to the Stoic emperor.)
- What was the first question young Needleman experienced? Have you experienced it? Do you think it is a good question? How do you answer it?
- What kinds of questions most interested Socrates?
- The Socratic dialogues consisted of what kinds of conversations? Do you enjoy participating in such conversations?
- What did Socrates say about the unexamined life? What corollaries does Weiner propose? Do you think Socrates was wrong?
SOCRATES: Ought we to enquire into the truth of this, Euthyphro, or simply to accept the mere statement on our own authority and that of others? What do you say?
EUTHYPHRO: We should enquire; and I believe that the statement will stand the test of enquiry.
SOCRATES: We shall know better, my good friend, in a little while. The point which I should first wish to understand is whether the pious or holy is beloved by the gods because it is holy, or holy because it is beloved of the gods.
EUTHYPHRO: I do not understand your meaning, Socrates.
SOCRATES: I will endeavour to explain...
...Having thus brought his subject to a conclusion, Socrates proposes to bathe himself, in order not to trouble others to wash his dead body. Crito thereupon asks if he has any commands to give, and especially how he would be buried, to which he, with his usual cheerfulness, makes answer, "Just as you please, if only you can catch me;" and then, smiling, he reminds them that after death he shall be no longer with them, and begs the others of the party to be sureties to Crito for his absence from the body, as they had been before bound for his presence before his judges.
After he had bathed, and taken leave of his children and the women of his family the officer of the Eleven comes in to intimate to him that it is now time to drink the poison. Crito urges a little delay, as the sun had not yet set; but Socrates refuses to make himself ridiculous by showing such a fondness for life. The man who is to administer the poison is therefore sent for; and on his holding out the cup, Socrates, neither trembling nor changing color or countenance at all, but, as he was wont, looking steadfastly at the man, asked if he might make a libation to any one; and being told that no more poison than enough had been mixed, he simply prayed that his departure from this to another world might be happy, and then drank off the poison, readily and calmly. His friends, who had hitherto with difficulty restrained themselves, could no longer control the outward expressions of grief, to which Socrates said, "What are you doing, my friends? I, for this reason, chiefly, sent away the women, that they might not commit any folly of this kind; for I have heard that it is right to die with good omens. Be quiet, therefore, and bear up."
When he had walked about for a while his legs began to grow heavy, so he lay down on his back; and his body, from the feet upward, gradually grew cold and stiff. His last words were, "Crito, we owe a cock to Æsculapius; pay it, therefore, and do not neglect it."
"This," concludes Phædo, "was the end of our friend—a man, as we may say, the best of all his time, that we have known, and, moreover, the most wise and just." Phaedo
Phaedo audio...
*"When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -Elbert Hubbard, probably... and not Marcus Aurelius, though the Internet seems to think otherwise. Don't confuse him with looney L. Ron...
- What's one of the great unexplained wonders of human history?
- Do you agree that we cannot understand ourselves if we do not understand others?
- What was Descartes's "still pertinent" conclusion?
- Why did the Buddha think speculation about ultimate reality was fruitless?
- What aspects of western thought have most influenced global philosophy?
- What do Africans not have, according to Kwame Appiah?
I should have said Yes! The word is meliorism (closely related, in my philosophy as in WJ's, to possibility):
"...there are unhappy men who think the salvation of the world impossible. Theirs is the doctrine known as pessimism.
Optimism in turn would be the doctrine that thinks the world's salvation inevitable.
Midway between the two there stands what may be called the doctrine of meliorism, tho it has hitherto figured less as a doctrine than as an attitude in human affairs. Optimism has always been the regnant DOCTRINE in european philosophy. Pessimism was only recently introduced by Schopenhauer and counts few systematic defenders as yet. Meliorism treats salvation as neither inevitable nor impossible. It treats it as a possibility, which becomes more and more of a probability the more numerous the actual conditions of salvation become.
It is clear that pragmatism must incline towards meliorism..." Pragmatism by William James
A conversation that ended in everyone realizing how little they knew was a success for Socrates. Wisdom to Socrates meant understanding the true nature of human's existence.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with your statement. I would also add that Socrates believed wisdom wasn't about being a know-it-all but rather believing and pursuing the fact that there was no limit to what we can learn
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ReplyDeleteI believe that Plato's story about the man in the cave correctly correlates with the theory that reality and how things appear to us are incredibly distinct. In a sense, I can see this similar to people devoting their lives to certain ideas like wanting a successful career or having the dream to be rich only to come and find out that it's not what makes you happy at the end of the day.
ReplyDeleteI would also add individuals often fail to see reality because they fail to question or think deeply.
DeleteOh thats such an interesting thought! I also think its interesting how Socrates seemed like such an open minded person but refused to use paper.
DeleteIn the video on Plato's philosophy, four main themes are dicussed regarding thinking, change, beauty, and society. The first theme outlines the importance of self-examination and self-knowledge. In order to explore one's identity, Plato proposed individuals should alot time aside to think more, creating a foundation for self-confidence. This decreases individuals tendencies to follow popular narratives.
ReplyDeleteI believe this is true in our society. Due to lack of self-knowledge, many people are swayed by popularization. Rather than defining who they are themselves, individuals let culture define who they should be. Time of relection allows room for self-examination.
I really like your observation about lack of self-knowledge in our society and how many people fail to question the elements that comprise their reality. We are so distracted by things that are designed to keep our attention as long as possible and keep us from thinking through our own problems and planning our lives. We spend so many hours a day blinded by external things that have very little pertenance to their own existence.
DeleteIt is extremely rare to be alone with your thoughts unless you do so deliberately. Plato's suggestion of actively putting aside time to explore your own mind is simple yet so easy to forget. It connects to what Eric Weiner says about why he likes riding the train in the introduction to The Socrates Express: In Search of Life Lessons from Dead Philosophers. It is the time where he is at his most contemplative. The sights, sounds, and feeling the of the train ride him block out things that clutter his internal monologue. Perhaps, this is something we can give serious consideration to doing in our own lives to build our self-confidence and more proactively navigate life's uncertainties.
A successful conversation to Socrates was one in which the person he spoke with left with a lack of confidence in their previously firm beliefs. By wisdom, he meant understanding the true nature of reality. As for my reflections, I think the ability to persuade individuals to question firmly held beliefs or potentially decide they know nothing is a powerful tool and it's pretty rude to use it on strangers.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your statement that the power of persuasive speaking is immense, especially in a world that can be so easily convinced. Going around threatening the foundational world views of strangers is undeniably dangerous, as we have seen time and time again throughout history. Countless people have been martyred for their beliefs including Socrates, often at the hands of those they are calling others to question. Socrates seemed at least in my understanding to be somewhat socially awkward. Is there a way he could have communicated his message about the search for wisdom that wouldn't have led to his execution? Is there a normal way to initiate conversation about the meaning of life with complete strangers?
DeleteThe kind of conversation that Socrates saw as a success was one where he got someone to see that they didn't know fully what they were talking about or knew. To Socrates, wisdom was seeing everything in different ways and trying to understand the true meaning behind them.
ReplyDeleteThe theory that Plato's story is connected to is his theory on Forms. This was the theory that was explained in the book through a situation of people being in a cave and chained to look only at a wall, but they only say shadows. One person broke free from his chains and saw that the shadows were really just smoke from a fire that they could not see. As for what I think on whether humans are naturally stuck in a cave, I think we are. People learn as they grow older and gain wisdom through experience, so it makes sense that we wouldn't know any better until we are either taught or do some thinking on our own when we get older.
For the last question, Socrates' inner voice was telling him, even in his final moments, that he should question everything. This voice is not literal because we cannot know what he was thinking on the time of his death, but we can think that's what he thought. Even then, it was all through Plato that we know about all of what Socrates did
I didn't really know how to dive deeper into the first question you answered but you explained it so well!
DeleteI really like your answer to the second question. I found it hard to not be so wordy explaining how people see a few different "worlds," but the term "forms" works really well to explain the cave story and peoples' perceptions.
DeleteComment 1: “What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?”
ReplyDeleteResponse 1: Plato’s story of the cave was interesting to me, and I feel extremely relevant in today’s world. I think it’s connected with the human experience and how you can never truly know until you, yourself, witness it firsthand. We might get anxiety about being on a plane and it crashing, but you won’t know what that feels like for a person until you, yourself, experience that. You can hear stories from others and sympathize with them, but never truly know. It’s a weird case of believing it will never happen to you, until it does, and until it does you don’t believe it (you might not even consider it an option). Like the people chained in the cave they saw what they believed they saw. When one of them broke free and experienced the truth things shifted in their life. Yet, no one chained believed them. This is because they, themselves, did not experience that, so how could that be a possibility for them. If it’s not a possibility for them then what makes it real to them? Ultimately the only thing that would make them believe is if they saw it themselves. People are funny like that. They don’t believe until they see it for themselves, and even then they might deny what’s in front of them. I think the more important question about the people in the cave, is once free do they change the way they live, or do they chain themselves back to the cave? I am curious if they recede back into their own beliefs, even after they have been challenged, or do they break free? I think it could be a case by case debate. I think humans have the ability to chain themselves back to the cave and be free depending on what they are choosing to accept and deny in the world.
I agree with your interpretation of Platos idea of the cave. This is the first time experiencing life for everyone. We are unfamiliar with other opinions and ideas. We are incredibly limited in the grand scheme of everything. The cave can be either a cage or inspire us to find our way out of the dark.
DeleteThis was my comment above (Will Phillips)
DeleteComment 2: “What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal?”
ReplyDeleteResponse 2: Socrates said his inner voice told him to not comply with his government. In other words, his inner voice told him not to submit, to be different, to make a change. I think the inner voice is as literal or figurative as you allow it to be. What I mean by this is that your inner voice is inside of you at all times. Think of it as your conscience or even your gut feelings. Your body and mind make up a voice, and this voice can be helpful or intrusive. I think in Socrates' case it was both. Helpful in the sense that he stayed consistent in his beliefs and set a change of philosophical dominos to be set into motion, but it also harmed him. This voice telling him not to submit ended up killing him. Sometimes we might hear a voice, but it’s ultimately up to us to do something (or do nothing) about it. So it’s not a question of if the inner voice is real and literal, but rather is the voice there for a reason? If so, what reason? What does your inner voice tell you to do? For me sometimes my inner voice tells me to jump if I am near a cliff. That doesn’t necessarily mean I want to die, but that voice tells me to do it nonetheless. What is the purpose of an inner voice if not to persuade you? I guess my real question is: what’s the purpose of an inner voice, if you don’t choose to listen to it?
I love how your insight on this question turned into a chain of questions toward the end of the answer, because I can so well relate to the way you think!
DeleteAttempting to answer your question- "What's the purpose of an inner voice, if you don't choose to listen to it", I would say, probably our inner voice is a part of a bigger voice. What I mean to say is, let's say when you were standing near the cliff, listening to your inner voice wanting to jump off the cliff, there was probably a quieter yet bigger voice guiding you not to jump off the cliff. Maybe our voices are conversations we have in different parts of our brain, and we end up choosing the best option that parallels with out conscience.
I like the way you said that Socrates listening to his inner voice also lead to harm towards himself, because in a way I think that shows how strongly and truly he believed what he was teaching. So much so that he was willing to die for those beliefs, because dying and still believing in something and not being afraid to stand for/against something is better than living without having asked any questions and living the way people tell you to.
DeleteComment 3: “What did Camus say is the one truly serious philosophical problem? Do you agree?”
ReplyDeleteResponse 3: I have read a few works by Camus and I generally like what I read (I find it thought provoking). When it comes to his philosophy, I can be leaning for and against it. In this case, I think the suicide debate is an important philosophical problem that implies not only personal beliefs, but religious beliefs. I think sometimes people assume religion and philosophy cannot go together, but I think by combining knowledge of the two fields we can learn much more about ourselves and our personal beliefs. For instance, I am a Christian so I believe suicide is a sin. More than that I am an empath and I believe no one should ever feel like they should result in killing themselves. On the same note, I struggle with suicidal idealizations and I have often contemplated ending my life. This in itself creates a mix of ideology and beliefs. On one hand I don’t think it is moral and should never be done, but I also see the side of why people want to end their lives. I think people (or at least in my case) don’t realize what suicide really is or what it means. Outside of religious belief, you are not only hurting yourself, but the people around you, not even just the people you are friends with or that love you, but random people that hear about it or witness it. It changes not only your life, but everyones. Which something I have struggled with when it comes to this is the question: Is suicide selfish? I think it can be argued both ways. I know something that has stopped me from ending it has been the thought of what would happen to my family and loved ones, so does that mean people that do commit don’t acknowledge those implications? Well not exactly. I think when you are in that state of mind you do not think about your loved ones, but rather the hurt you feel. Which emphasizes my point that people that want to commit suicide do not know what suicide truly is, because they are looking at it through a lens of hurt and pain. I don’t have the answer on if suicide is moral or not. I think people hurt a lot and we should find out why that is. I think suicide is a terrible tragedy, but that doesn’t make me the judge on if someone is going to hell because of it. I can put my religious values aside and recognize this debate is about human experiences and their lives, rather than if they are going to hell or not. So, yes I think the question of suicide is a major philosophical question that I do not have the answer to, but I do find it a fascinating subject as someone who is both religious and suicidal.
First, I want to express sympathy for your personal thoughts. I don't believe suicide is the answer, and I hope that everyone can find solace rather than taking one's own life. Also, not growing up religious, I didn't even think about the perspective of that. So thank you for that.
DeleteWith that said, I recently picked up the show The Good Doctor, and in Season 2, Episode 9 (a bit of a spoiler), there is a character named George. George is a troubled man who struggles with deeply inappropriate thoughts. Despite his efforts to suppress these thoughts, the treatments he undergoes are unfortunately harming him. One doctor views George as a monster or criminal, while another empathizes with him, understanding that having these thoughts doesn't necessarily make him a "monster".
George takes drastic measures to prevent himself from acting on his urges. As the episode progresses, he ultimately decides to take his own life. This episode raises questions about the morality of suicide, especially when treatments are ineffective, and the fear of losing self-control is overwhelming. Watching this episode made me question my perspective on suicide.
I recommend watching the episode for context as I am missing a load of it here, but that is to not share anything regarding the character that may be inappropriate for this setting.
I completely agree with you when you explain your belief that the combination between religion and philosophy could help us learn more about ourselves and beliefs. I also believe that incorporating the two could create many different opportunities for people to decide what they want to believe in and comfortably
DeleteComment 1:
ReplyDeleteA successful conversation for Socrates was one that ended with everyone realizing how little they knew about the world around them. I really like that idea of a conversation, I also like the idea of learning something new in every conversation. I think this way of thinking was also what got him killed which while sad also shows just how powerful this style of philosophy really is. Socrates also said that wisdom isn't just about knowing facts, its about knowing the true nature of our existence and always testing how much we know. Which again I love to think about life and intelligence this way. Even the smartest people still have so much to learn and discover.
Forgot to put my name by mistake, Sidney Shaw
DeleteWe truly will never know everything about our world. The idea that humans have been on earth for the amount of time they have been , yet we know so little, will always baffle me.
DeleteI appreciate the way you all are sharing your own perspectives and not just reiterating what's in the text, when responding to these questions. Keep it up!
ReplyDeletePlato's story of the cave is connected with Plato's Theory of Forms. I used to think most people were stuck in the cave and conflated the "distractions" of society (sports, social media, etc) with the shadows on the wall. It's almost embarrassing to admit now because it feels a bit dismissive and self-righteous to think that way. The cave itself, to me, seems like an idea rooted in disdain for society and I don't think leaving the cave necessarily makes for a more virtuous or fulfilling life, but it almost certainly makes for a lonelier one.
ReplyDeleteI will say that I didn't think about it like that when I was reading the text. I had a different perspective, but I will agree that it is hard to make people see things in the world the way you do. Many people prefer to stay in their comfort zone rather than venture out.
DeleteI think it's great that you shared your first thoughts on being stuck in the cave. Even if you currently thought that I don't think it'd be bad as reading it initially made me ponder on if it can also be distractions and that's what makes sharing ideals so important.
DeleteIt's said that Socrates had an inner voice that told him to question everything. While I don't think this was literal, I think it may as well have been. Choosing to oblige by the demands of his government and stop asking questions was against his nature and not a realistic compromise, so he decided he'd rather die. I wonder what he would think about being a household name today and if he had any idea of the eventual continuity of his legacy before his death.
ReplyDeleteThe best questions , to me, are the ones we don't yet have answers too. Some of the biggest questions we have are ones that we can't even answer. Socrates is such a good example of this because he asked so many amazing questions and the government hated it.
DeletePosted for Claire:
ReplyDeleteHello again, I tried publishing my comments but the website says that its still having issues. Here are my responses to the questions about Socrates and Plato:
A conversation that ended in everyone realizing how little they knew was a success for Socrates. Wisdom for Sacrates meant understanding the true nature of our existence, including the limits of what we can know.
Platos story about the cave is connected to Plato’s Theory of Forms.I dont think all humans are theoretically stuck in a cave, just some.
Socrates had an inner voice that told him to keep questioning everything. I dont think it was a literal inner voice, I think he just really believed it.
If anyone has an idea about why some of your classmates are having trouble posting, please share.
ReplyDeleteResponse 1:
ReplyDelete1. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
For Socrates, a conversation that ended with everyone realizing how little they understood was considered a success for him. I believe that Socrates enjoyed these types of conversations because they would open the minds of both the citizens he interacted with, as well as of the mind of himself. With these new ideas floating around, it would allow for deeper conversation and a better understanding of the topics at hand. In addition, philosophy is a very open-ended subject. There is no wrong answer to anything, but rather a question to be asked for everything, leaving many different avenues of thought open for discussion. Socrates defined wisdom as understanding the true nature of existence, including what you could know but do not. This idea of wisdom is very accurate because while a person might be very smart when it comes to facts and knowledge, they might lack the ability to form opinions on more difficult questions about our life that ask, “why.” I believe Weiner mentioned this as well in his text, but you cannot be born with wisdom rather, you develop this skill with time and experience; this requires repetitive thinking, conversation, and reflection.
Response 2:
ReplyDelete2. What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
Plato’s story of the cave is connected with his “Theory of Forms,” which would come about later in his life. This theory argues that all physical objects are imperfect and that only abstract ideas that carry the proper “form” are perfect. Personally, I believe, especially in modern times, that the majority of individuals are stuck in the allegorical cave. I believe this because things like the rise of social media, allow people to take a back seat to truly seeing what is real or fake, believing everything and anything they see on the internet without further question. In addition, I also believe this allegory could be tied to addictions. In a metaphorical sense, the actual stimulus of the addiction would be causing the shadows on the wall, which would prevent the individual from seeing the outside world. Escaping these shadows would be represented by beating the addiction, and finally breaking free and seeing the outside world would be represented by how hard it was to get out of the cave. This allegory could probably be compared to many other real-world situations and problems but these were the two that stuck out to me.
Response 3:
ReplyDeleteWhat kinds of questions most interested Socrates?
Socrates was interested in the " how " questions because he enjoyed improving himself. I think this idea could be used more often in modern society seeing as how many people neglect their own improvement in order to chase other, more superfluous goals and objects. At the root of everything whether we like it or not, we are going to always exist in our own mind and body for our entire life, why not start early and create an environment for yourself that you will always want to be around in? This could include exercise, good diet, mental exercises like meditation, etc.
I really like the way you worded your statement. I agree that most of society doesn't realize that there is always room for improvement within yourself. I think Socrates is a great example of keeping a level head and knowing what you want to learn. There is nothing wrong with wanting to know more!
DeleteBeing able to explain "how" for any question in life, is such a challenge. Simply explaining "How can we (humans) be better," may seem easy, but if it was so easy then everyone would be better.
DeleteBut improving yourself isn't supposed to be easy. While it's difficult, yes, it also yields a high reward of making the individual feel more confident. In addition, asking "how" doesn't mean finding the secret to life. Asking "how" should be taking smaller steps in improvement in order to hold yourself to a higher standard. The problem is some people never even begin in the first place, looking at these "how" problems as one big great challenge, not as small tasks to complete. The small steps you take everyday, in the long run, will total to the entire picture. An example could be, "How can I implement one healthy habit in my everyday life." If you were consistent, eventually in say a year, you would be way better than you started off. That's all it takes. To me, that really doesn't seem too complicated.
Delete1. For Socrates, he liked to challenge what people thought they knew about certain subjects or the assumptions that built their upbringing. Well in other words, spread wisdom amongst others that they wouldn't have known if they had not had a conversation with him. A conversation was a success when people leave the conversation realizing how little they knew prior to the conversation.
ReplyDeleteWisdom for Socrates was understanding the nature of our existence. It is usually the human instinct to ask questions about things we are curious about, but we often just try to obtain facts to get us by. For Socrates, what made him stand out among many philosophers, was that he continued to talk and ask questions to see how much one can know about the human existence. That is what considered him so wise.
2. The theory of Plato's story was connected to Plato's Theory of Forms, which deep dives into the thinking of how many mistake appearances for reality. The example goes that many people are chained in a cave with a fire going, making shadows appear on the wall. If one sees these all the time, they begin to believe that this is what the outside world is like. One person breaks free and leaves the "cave" or close-minded thinking and begins to explore outside of the cave, seeing that it was more to the world than meets the eye. That person was what Plato thought represented Philosophers, thinking they were the only people who could see the world from a grander perspective.
I think that most humans are accustomed to seeing the world from eye-to-eye perspective, as in what we can see in front of us. This can be considered "stuck in a cave", because though some seek more knowledge than what they are given, many also choose to stick to what they already knew, staying in their old ways/habits.
3. Socrates said that his inner voice told him to keep questioning everything that he could, and he didn't ignore even in his last moments. I think that the "inner voice" just means that he felt called to challenge everything that he could and ask everything he could in his time. I don't see this a literal statement.
1. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
ReplyDeleteBased on what LHP says, I think that Socrates found pleasure and success in a conversation that left the other participants realizing how little they may or may not know about their beliefs (or whatever they are defending). Socrates also was puzzled at a man telling him that there was "No one (is) wiser than Socrates" when he wondered how this man thought this, when he knew "so little" this would lead Socrates to many years of puzzling over this idea of whether wisdom equated to knowledge and vice versa. What Socrates saw as wisdom was the question as old as time which is "what is life" and asked questions about our existence. I really connect with this because as I'm becoming an actual adult, I've been wondering many of the same questions myself.
2. What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
The theory that Plato's story is related to is his "Theory of Forms". I definitely think that a lot of humans are are stuck in a cave. I also think this comes naturally as our bodies and mind love to be comfortable. This can be explained scientifically by acknowledging that when we are physically and mentally comfortable our bodies release dopamine which our brain eats up like crazy. However I think there is a deeper reason too. For as long as humans have been humans we have separated ourselves from some people, in the attempt to affiliate ourselves with others. When tribes existed before civilizations we would group up in numbers to make ourselves more comfortable. I think that this "follow the flock" mentality is what leads many people to WILLINGLY keep themselves chained in caved. Caves that they may not know much about.
3. What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal?
I don't think that "Daimonion" or his inner voice ever told him what to do (as far as historical knowledge of it went, "Socrates Divine Inner Voice") specifically but rather guided him. But according to our reading the voice told him to question everything. I also think 100% that the voice he heard was very literal. I too have had moments that I believe God has spoken to me whether it be literally, a gut feeling, or even someone else or something else indirectly telling me.
I like your thoughts on question 3. I believe that the "Daimonion" was a reflection of the beliefs of Plato. This inner compass would help guide him and question everything.
Delete"Philosopher" to Weiner means "lover of wisdom." Philosophy was self-transformation.
ReplyDeleteCamus says suicide is the only true serious philosophical problem. I don't agree that suicide is the ONLY true serious philosophical question but I agree that it is a serious question that people debate often.
ReplyDeleteI agree as well, and I can understand why he would say suicide is the only one even though I disagree. I think it is because while there are a million ways to look at other horrible events, suicide is always a tragedy no matter how it's framed.
DeleteWhile I agree that there are other philosophical problems, I think Camus meant that in order to be able to see the objective truth of reality, one must first examine their own existence and determine if the objective value of existence, or potential relief at the lack thereof, is sufficient to continue living. If one doesn't like their conclusions and decides not to exist (commits suicide), then every other problem in the world would be secondary.
Delete^ Nate Griffin
DeleteI agree along with this and the reply by Nate Griffin. I think with the many views on suicide, it is difficult to come to a truly satisfying conclusion on something we will never really know or share what is after death.
Delete
ReplyDelete1. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom? It seems like socrates believed a conversation was successful when he left whoever he was conversing with questioning things that they thought they already knew. Or making them realize that when they thought they knew everything, they actually know very little. Wisdom to Socrates was understanding the true meaning existence, rather than just knowing a bunch of facts.
What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave? That story is connected with his "theory of forms." I definitely think there are some humans who are "stuck in the cave." I think once we acquire enough knowledge to simply survive, we get comfortable and stop seeking more knowledge.
3. What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal? He said his inner voice told him to continue questioning everything. I think that the inner voice is certainly real. I think everyone has something inside of them that tells them "you should do this" or "you shouldn't do this." For some people they might believe that to be God speaking to them, for some people they might believe that's just their instincts talking to them, and etc. Whatever that thing might be, I do believe he heard an actual voice.
1. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
ReplyDeleteResponse: One that ended in the participants realizing their lack of knowledge on a given subject. He believed that wisdom was knowing the true knowledgeable extent of existence and having awareness of how little we know about life so that we can continue to learn and grow.
2. What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
Response: The theory was similar to Plato’s Theory of Forms. I do believe that all humans are naturally "stuck in a cave” from the moment we are born. From a survival point of view it makes sense for our brains to worry more about what we visibly see and simply understand to focus more on staying alive and preserving energy. Because we are unique conscious creatures we have the ability to further understand our place in the universe and conceptualize the world more thoroughly so in that sense we have the freedom to "step out” of the cave. But there is no way that human beings can understand the world entirely in this lifetime so unfortunately we will always be “stuck” to an extent.
3. What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal?
Response: To keep questioning everything. Yes, I believe the inner voice is literal, although it might have been referring to a moral philosophy he adopted and stood by, but even then, an inner voice would have articulated his philosophy and lead him to action.
1. What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
ReplyDeletePlato's story of the cave has to do with his "theory of forms". I think certain humans are definitely stuck in this "cave". I think a connection could be made to people under totalitarian governments where their whole lives are designed to be subservient to the state. Like in the story where the cave dwellers don't believe what the person has to say about the world outside, people often are in states of disbelief when confronted with their actual reality. I think an excellent example of this is North Korea. In another sense, I think people who are steadfastly adherent to a particular political or worldview are in a sense stuck inside a cave of their own mind that anything outside is naturally viewed as a threat or fake.
2. What did Marcus Aurelius need, at dawn, to remind himself of?
Marcus Aurelius needed to remind himself of the distinction between duty and obligation. Duty is what comes from the inside of us. Duty is therefore voluntary while obligation is what comes from the outside, or what could happen if we don't do what is necessary. Therefore Aurelius reminded himself that he needed to rise as a human being and nothing else. I think this also could be of use in my own life. I should seek the courage within to rise to the occasion rather then focusing on what would happen if I didn't.
3. "Philosopher" means what? Philosophy was what, in ancient Athens?
Philosopher literally means "lover of wisdom" from the Greek word philosphos. Philosophy was in ancient Athens what therapy is today, self-transformation. It was practical for the Athenians. This is very interesting to me, I would never have thought that the concept of the modern "self-help" book was what philosophy was for ancient Athenians. It gives me a new lens as to view this particular subject as opposed to studying philosophy as trivial and a chore.
Joey Ferrara
ReplyDelete1. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
It sounds like any conversation where ideas were exchanged and challenged was a success for him, it didn't matter if there was a "winning" idea or not, merely the act of the exchange and the challenge meant it was a success.
Wisdom meant knowing the nature of our existence and the limits of what we can know.
2. What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
His theory of forms.
I don't believe so. Humanity, by our own nature, are social animals, after all, a majority of human inventions are meant to better facilitate communication. One could even argue that for firearms.
3. What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal?
To keep asking questions.
I don't think it was literal, I think it was born more from a mix of pride, curiosity, and wonder. Possible a mix of ADHD and enjoyment in confounding people as well.
Comment 1: I found it interesting that Socrates thought he did not know much but he knew all of the right things to ask. I think it truly showed how much he actually knew by seeing that people didn't know what they thought they knew.
ReplyDeleteResponse 1: Socrates was not interested in the "what?" or "why?" questions, he liked the "how?". He believed that you could find these answers by self-reflection.
1. What kind of conversation was a success for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
ReplyDeleteSocrates believed a successful conversation occurred when one was left perplexed, having questioned their understanding of the particular concept per the discussion. People tend to follow a rhythm once they find something that just works or applies something someone said without rhyme or reason just because someone stated something. Through conversations, you can also pick up on other key characteristics, such as someone's emotions or physical expression. Which also provides valuable insight into a person's thoughts on a particular topic.
To tie wisdom into the first paragraph - again, it is not just following directions blindly. It is asking questions, having conversations, and being open to different perspectives. A thought that has stuck with me from Simon Sinek (although I'm sure it may be attributed to others) regarding questions is that even if you feel the question may be "dumb", ask it regardless. You never know who may be around who won't speak up themselves, which could drastically shift anyone's understanding of a topic of conversation upon receiving an answer.
Comment 2: I like Socrates belief in only having face to face conversations. Even though he says he doesn't like paper because it can't write back, I feel like this form of expression can lead to new ideas.
ReplyDeleteResponse 2: Plato's theory is connected to the Theory of Forms. It basically explains how everyone believed one thing until the one saw the true meaning. I do think that some humans are "stuck in a cave". Sometimes peoples' opinions can not be changed until they chose to see differently as well.
Comment 3: The quote in the Introduction of Weiner: "We mistake the urgent for the important, the verbose for the throughout, the popular for the good.", is very eye opening. I can think of the many times that I thought the popular was the good but in reality it was not.
ReplyDeleteResponse 3: Camus said that suicide is the one true philosophical problem, the question is, is life worth living? I disagree to an extent I think it can be seen as, is it worth continuing to live? Because at some point, that person had a reason and duty to live.
I'm curious what you mean by this. Is this to say that for some people, or even all people, have a purpose in life, and once this purpose is fulfilled, life becomes meaningless? I feel that life is constantly changing you, and if you were to fulfill your one and only purpose, what would that make everyone around you? The way I see it, one's only true purpose in life is to die, but the things you do before that is what makes that life special.
DeleteResponse 1:
ReplyDeleteQuestion- What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
Answer- To Socrates, conversations that ended by proving how little the person he was conversing with really knew was a success. He thought it better to know how much you truly know, even if it was nothing at all, rather than living in the false assumption that you understand something, when in reality you don't.
Socrates had a different idea of wisdom when compared to the rest of the people of Athens. To him, wisdom was not mere facts that one knew, or a skill to do a certain task in a specific way. Instead, to him, wisdom was understanding the true nature of human existence, even if that meant confronting ones limitations.
*"When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -Elbert Hubbard, probably... and not Marcus Aurelius, though the Internet seems to think otherwise. Don't confuse him with looney L. Ron...
ReplyDeleteRegardless of who the quote comes from, I agree with the sentiment. We live in a world of instantaneous gratification, and at the slightest inconvenience, it falls apart (figuratively). Using things like social media as forms of comparison due to people posting only their highlights in life, the divisiveness of social and political topics that are constantly pushed to the front of the fyp, or the endless scrolling of short-form content that we consume just to fill a void or suppress an uncomfortable situation.
We are constantly grinding to try and keep up with something like technology, which is changing at a massively exponential rate, so much so that we forget to take time to ourselves, reflect, and realign what is truly meaningful in our daily lives.
"An unexamined life is fine for cattle, but not for human beings" - had to annotate that on my little sticky from LHP because I thought it was an absolutely fantastic quote and ties into my rant. Look at me learning things.. :)
I think that quote is very fitting for the ideas of the Plato. We should not be comparing ourselves to others, but rather look within. We should not be blind to our selves and treat ourselves as we would treat any other person.
DeleteI love the Elbert Hubbard quote! We definitely need to start focusing on a more positive light of things, especially in this day and age!
DeleteResponse 2:
ReplyDeleteQuestion- What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
Answer- Plato's story of the cave is connected with his own theory of "Forms". To explain this theory, he explains how when we look a circle drawn on a surface, we think of it to be a real circle, but in reality there is no absolute perfect circle; our brains imagine the form of a circle and consider the shape in front of us to be of that form. Similarly, what people see in front of them, they believe it to be true.
I would like to give an example of my own here. Today we know that the earth is the shape of an oblate spheroid (not a perfect sphere, but similar). If we could have conversation with a man from the past who believed that the earth is flat, how could we incorporate the idea of earth being spherical in shape to him? He would never believe us because just like the chained people believed shadows of things on the cave walls to be real objects, this man believed that earth is flat.
The same might go on for many of us in different situations, if not for the thought of earth being flat. In one way or the other, we are all living in a cave.
But I can't help thinking that what if that one man who broke the chains in the cave and stepped out into the big bright world, actually never stepped outside? What if the world outside was a larger cave?
Comment 2:
ReplyDeleteThe story of the cave is connected with a theory known as Plato's Theory of Forms. Yes, I do think all humans are trapped in their own versions of Plato's cave theory. Each one is unique to the person it contains, but all have the same basic foundation. It's one of the few things we have asa the human race, in which we can all relate to each other.
Comment 3:
ReplyDeleteSocrates's inner voice told him not to betray his personal beliefs and thinking methods. I do think it is partially literal and partially more of just a compelling feeling. Socrates's way of life, his way of thinking was all he knew and the code by which we lived his life. It was the way he grew his students and school in his life time. When he was put to death his loyalty to his method of thinking was put to the test and yet something in him told him to hold strong and die for his pursuit of knowledge. I think that's what he meant by inner voice. The feeling that pushes us to defend and follow what we think it right and the truth. This situation has been shown through time over and over again and I'm sure that more people like Socrates will be tested as well.
Sidney Shaw ^
DeletePlato's cave is connected with the Theory of Forms, which is the idea that physical forms are not as real as non-physical forms.
ReplyDeleteI absolutely think that we as humans are always metaphorically stuck in a cave, or at least we all start there and not everyone decides to get up and try to leave and explore. Especially now and in the current state of the world, many people, too many, would rather live in ignorance and believe what is fed to them blindly without asking any questions. A lot of this is the fear of being uncomfortable, or the understood "norm" being disrupted and proven to not be the utopian existence that people previously thought their life was like.
Totally! People now do tend to stay in the cave rather than go and explore because it is the new "norm," so maybe they're not necessarily stuck rather than content with the way it is.
Delete1. A successful conversation for Socrates was one where he would challenge others and what they thought or believed. He’d make them realize that there’s more to what they think and how limited it was. Socrates believed that wisdom was going beyond the limits of what you already know because no one knows everything. The more you learn, the more you realize how little you know.
ReplyDelete2. Plato’s theory about the cave is connected to his Theory of Forms. It explains that people are often stuck with what’s directly in front of them, not breaking free from appearances. To truly understand what’s around them, they must think critically, rather than relying solely on their senses. His theory is still relevant today because many things are masked or limited, and people often don’t take the time to think deeply about what they observe. They need to step outside their limited perspective and experience things for themselves to see the deeper truths.
3. Socrates’ inner voice told him to keep questioning things, even to the point that he’d rather die than stop asking questions. I don’t think the inner voice was literal, in the sense that it was a separate voice from his own conscious thoughts. I believe it was more of a subconscious voice that guided him, reflecting his deeper beliefs and values. The “voice” is likely a reflection of his inner thoughts, instincts, and moral compass, constantly pushing him to stay true to his principles.
Question 1: A conversation that was considered a success for Socrates was whenever people left a conversation with him a little confused. I feel that this pleases Socrates because he actually was making people think. I think that you learn the best when you are confused. At least to me the feeling of confusion is undesirable, so when I am confused I want to understand what I previously did not. This might be why Socrates liked when people were confused because he was actually making people think deeply.
ReplyDeleteQuestion 2: Plato's story about the cave is connected to his theory of Form. He thought that we shouldn't base opinions on certain things that we have seen but rather the form. For example, focus on what goodness is rather than examples of goodness that you have seen. I feel that many people are stuck in "caves." I might even be guilty of this to some extent as well. In my opinion, there are very few people in this world that are actually free from the cave in every way.
ReplyDeleteQuestion 3: Socrates inner voice always told him to question everything. This voice is what drove Socrates and ultimately led to his death. I do not believe this voice to be a literal voice in his head, but rather a philosophy that he created and lived by. Times were really different back then, so it is crazy to me that he was put to death for just simply being annoying and questioning everything including the religions that were in place during that time.
ReplyDeleteNate Hicks(had trouble signing in)
ReplyDelete1. What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
I found the Theory of Forms to be really interesting, that abstract, conceptual ideas are the only reality. I find the cave story a bit hard to grasp. To me shadows are still apart of reality and the chained people only aware of the shadows are still experiencing what is real. The only difference I see is a change in perspective. By going beyond what this person has known, they’ve expanded what they’ve thought and experienced to be true. I don’t believe those content in a cave(literally or figuratively) is a negative thing that deters one from expanding perspective. Rather, it was the grasp on reality the people still chained thought they had. Which, I think, is more akin to Socrates teaching. What if one of the people chained was upside down and day finds himself right side up, there’s plenty of perspective to be gained from that! Naturally, I think we’re inquisitive beings but can be conditioned to dull our curiosity by the chains and caves we find ourselves in.
2. What was the first question young Needleman experienced? Have you experienced it? Do you think it is a good question? How do you answer it?
The question “Who created God?” I have experienced this question before. I’m not sure how ‘good’ the question is in the sense that you can get close to answering it. But I do think it is a good question in exfoliating the mind and experiencing that liberation that Needleman describes. I don’t think I try to answer it. Personally, I come to an educated conclusion after reading the rest of the Bible and that’s enough for me. Should someone come along with a new idea I’d definitely be interested in hearing them out.
3. What did Socrates say about the unexamined life? What corollaries does Weiner propose? Do you think Socrates was wrong?
An unexamined life is not worth living, I agree! But the corollaries are also vital to this idea as well. Impractical examination is not beneficial in creating a meaningful life. Additionally and more importantly in my opinion, the over examined life is not worth living either and happiness as a byproduct is a very profound way to describe value in examination.
In the LHP reading, Warburton highlights that wisdom is based on argument, reasoning, and asking questions. Socrates adds that wisdom is knowing how to do something. What defines wisdom? Who sets the standard for wisdom? What is wise and unwise?
ReplyDeleteLeft to mere human thought, what constitutes as wisdom is dependent on the person. Therefore, I believe there has to be a divine characterization for what wisdom is.
This is Abby.
DeletePlato's comment about being "chained to the wall of a cave" can oddly be attributed to a lot of modern day practices. Of course, there's no way to prove it, but the theory of forms is prevalent in media like tv shows and video games, where the characters, portrayed by other humans, see themselves trapped in the world that the writers have made up for them. Characters in media have existed for a while, such as those in theatre and books, but it continues to be expanded upon in modern iterations with various examples of "breaking the 4th wall". This 4th wall acts as the chains that bind the humans to the cave.
ReplyDelete1. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
ReplyDeleteWhen Socrates talked about topics that made people realize exactly how little they knew, that was deemed as his successful conversation. He had a belief that finding ignorance is far more important than living with false ideas. As for wisdom, he meant it in a sense of knowing the nature of things truly and how much a person actually knows.
2. What theory is Plato’s story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
Plato’s cave story is connected with the Theory of Forms. He says that people only see “shadows” of reality but perceive these as the whole truth of the world. I believe that people can 100% be stuck in a “cave.” We are raised based on our parents, grandparents, siblings, teachers, friends, etc beliefs and that can hide us from seeing and/or believing our own ideas or the whole truth.
3. What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think inner voice is literal?
Socrates says that his inner voice was like a guide for warnings. He claims they told him when things might not be a good idea. I think that the voice was not literal but more like our “gut feeling” we talk about today. We have that feeling of dread on the inside if an idea we have is bad, resulting in a different idea (most of the time). Or the idea that we have guardian angels who guide us through our lives, leading us to the best opportunities .
I agree about the cave statement. We slowly get parts of ourselves from others. So who raised us is takes a big part in that.
DeleteSocratic dialogue is a conversation regarding a given set of questions between two people that goes back and forth, typically in agreement or disagreement until consensus, at least in my eyes. Socratic seminars, such as those we've held in class, tend to be larger scale discussions with viewpoints that can differ on a wide spectrum. I typically enjoy socratic discussions because I feel that they are less opinionated and can be rushed or slowed depending on the lull of the dialogue. You don't waste time on silly questions if you have 6 more to talk about. They usually inspire more thought and relationships between the question topics, which allows me, and hopefully the other participant, to make connections that I wouldn't have had with the single topic.
ReplyDeleteQuestion 1.
ReplyDeleteWhat kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
Response 1.
For Socrates, a successful conversation was one that encouraged critical thinking, self-examination, and deeper understanding through questioning assumptions and challenging beliefs. His method of asking probing questions helped others arrive at conclusions themselves, often revealing the limits of their knowledge. Socrates believed that true wisdom came from recognizing one's ignorance and being open to learning. He saw wisdom not as the accumulation of facts but as an awareness of what one knows and doesn’t know, which was essential for leading a virtuous and meaningful life through continuous self-reflection and philosophical inquiry.
Question 2.
What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
Response 2.
Plato's allegory of the cave is closely connected to his theory of Forms, which suggests that the physical world is only a shadow or reflection of a deeper, unchanging reality that can only be understood through philosophical reasoning. In the allegory, prisoners are trapped in a cave, only able to see shadows on the wall cast by objects behind them. These shadows represent the distorted perceptions of reality that most people live by. The journey of one prisoner escaping the cave symbolizes the philosopher’s journey toward enlightenment, where they discover the truth beyond the illusions of the sensory world.
As for whether humans are naturally "stuck in a cave," in an allegorical sense, I think it's fair to say that many people can be trapped in limited perspectives or superficial understandings of the world. We can get caught up in our own biases, assumptions, or societal constructs, seeing only the "shadows" of reality. It takes effort, introspection, and often a shift in thinking to move beyond these constraints and begin to see the world in a more truthful, clear way, much like the prisoner who escapes the cave. Some may be more naturally inclined to challenge their perceptions, while others may remain comfortable in their limited view of reality, unaware of a greater understanding.
Question 3.
What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal?
Response 3.
Socrates often referred to his "inner voice" as a kind of divine guidance, which he called his daimonion. He described it as a voice or sign that would warn him against certain actions or decisions, guiding him away from potential wrongdoing or mistakes. This voice didn't give him direct instructions on what to do but acted more as a kind of moral compass, telling him when something was wrong or when to avoid a particular course of action. Socrates famously claimed that this voice never told him what to do, only what not to do, and he considered it an important source of wisdom in his life.
As for whether the "inner voice" is literal, it could be interpreted in different ways. Some might see it as a literal, divine or supernatural experience, while others may interpret it more metaphorically—perhaps as an inner conscience, intuition, or rational awareness guiding his actions. It could also represent a deeper level of self-awareness or an inner dialogue where Socrates reflects on moral choices. In modern terms, we might see it as the voice of reason or moral insight that guides ethical decision-making. Whether literal or metaphorical, the key idea is that Socrates trusted this inner voice as a source of wisdom, and it played a significant role in his philosophy.
What kind of conversation was a success for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom? For Socrates, a conversation that ended in everyone realizing how little they knew ended up becoming a success in his eyes. Socrates meaning for Wisdom was the ability to understand the true nature of our existence... Including the limits of what we know!
ReplyDeleteWhat theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some of all humans are somehow stuck in a cave? Pluto's theory is connected to his "Theory of Forms". I do believe some humans that tend to ignore the possibilities offered and handed to them, and are in a sense, stuck in a cave!
What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think his inner voice is literal? His inner voice told him to keep questioning everything, and that he wasn't allowed to betray it! I do believe his inner voice was literal, and very much audibly spoken. I think it influences his actions and stubbornness.
3. What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal?
ReplyDeleteSocrates's inner voice told him to ask difficult questions and to keep questioning everything. Do I believe that the inner voice is literal, no I do not. Is our idea of self really in control? Or are we just observers of our thoughts and actions, more along for the ride than in control.
I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle. Sigmund Freud would argue that there are three things at conflict with one another in our consciousness as a whole. The id, the ego, and the superego. Without getting too deep; our primal urges, our curiosity for things unknown, our sense of self, our fear of punishment, our pursuit of pleasure, and our sense of right and wrong all combine with countless other factors to form our "inner voice". I think Socrates had a heightened sense of curiosity that overshadowed his sense of self preservation. It is an interesting thought experiment to imagine what conclusions Sigmund Freud might come to if he were to psychoanalyze Socrates.
1. A successful conversation for Socrates was one where the other party question how much they knew and forced them to think of things they probably otherwise wouldn't. Socrates believed that realizing the limits of one's knowledge was wisdom.
ReplyDelete2. Plato's story of the cave is related to his theory of forms. Majority of people tend to be stuck in a cave without realizing it. I do not believe children are; however, as you grow up forget how it is like to be outside that cave. some leave the cave and return; while very few leave and remain outside. I do not believe "stuck" is the word for it when majority choose to remain within without realizing what is out there.
3. Socrates inner voice urged him to question things. Whether that voice is literal or not depends. It could be a voice in a sense referring to his conscience, or, it could be a literal voice speaking to him. However, do I believe that voice is something outside of himself? no.
I agree, all of the questions had either to do with Socrates wanting to continue to question everything around, or the cave theory where people are really just choosing to stay within rather than being willing to "stay out of the cave"
DeleteIn Socrates terms a successful conversation ended when the person he was speaking to is left confused, questioning if they are truly wholeheartedly believed what they did prior. He explains that it is far better to be confused than understanding something that you did not.
ReplyDeleteThe theory Plato is relating to his story is his own theory of forms. I do not believe that in a sense every human is "stuck" in this cave, I feel it is more akin to being lost, because if you have the means to get out but choose not to are you truly stuck? But I do semi agree with his theory, people ignoring the truth in order to stay in their unaware routine, in this case choosing to be "stuck" in a cave.
Socrates explained that his inner voice urges him to question things. I believe the inner voice he is referring to is his innate curios nature. There is a chance he could be referencing a literal voice in his head speaking to him, but this does not change his devotion to never taking things at face value and questioning them.
Section 6
ReplyDelete1. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
- Socrates found success through asking those he met what at first seemed like a simple question with a simple answer. Once someone had answered his question, he then used a counter point to create a strong sense of cognitive dissonance in whoever he would question (2). Another characteristic of Socrates’ conversations was his refusal to write his conversations down, stating “Written words can’t answer back” which allowed for him to have a greater focus on debating those he was in conversation with to grow his wisdom further (4). Through his actions he displayed that he believed that being wise and having wisdom was not to have knowledge, but instead to have the willingness to question the world and those around it to allow for a greater understanding of the world.
2. What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
- Plato’s story of the cave connects to his theory of forms which deals with human perception (4). The story of the cave is used to display a limited human perception of the world, until one of them breaks free and sees the world for what it truly is (4). When he returns to tell the others what he has seen in the real world, those chained to the wall refuse to believe him because it does not line up with their perception of the world (4). As a modern society it is truly clear that in one way or another, we are all stuck in that same cave Plato described, even though we live in the digital age where any knowledge we may want is at our fingertips. I say we are still so limited because while we have all that knowledge available in most cases, society does not take the time to think critically about what they read not allowing it to develop into wisdom, nor does the knowledge itself have any time to stick with the person.
3. What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal?
- Socrates said his inner voice told him to “question everything” (8). While the inner voice was not literal, I think it was a representation of his philosophy. Socrates lived every day questioning the world and people around him and because of that he lived a life of wisdom many can only ever dream of. While he would be put to death over it him following this inner voice to the very end depicts a life he had no regrets for. Through his commitment to stick to his personal philosophy he had inspired many that would come after him, to continue to question everything.
1. Socrates believed that a successful conversation was one that involved a lot of self examination. Looking at oneself and realizing how little they truly know about something. This sort of self examination would allow one to realize ones own ignorance.
ReplyDelete2. The theory that Platos cave story is related to is that every human feels lost. Looking for their purpose in a world they are unfamiliar with. Limited by their lack of exposure to others ideas and blinded by their own biases.
3. I believe that we all have those "voices" in our heads. While it is not literal it is more of a metaphor. Some sort of moral compass guiding us along in our lives. The moral compass reflects what each person individually values and follows.
1. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
ReplyDeleteI believe he recognized ignorance in himself and others as a sign of success within conversation. Allowing them to come to a mutual understanding of just how influential questioning and 'philosophy' could become.
3. What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal?
DeletePrior to announcing you can tell within the reading that Socrates valued the inner drive to question. Hence, his motives of having that inner voice enforcing him to continue questioning. With this I truly believe the inner voice was both a literal and internal, pulling him mentally towards questioning. As well as internally pulling him to make the choices that led to his influence.
(section 7)
^ Mackenna Mantia
Delete1. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
ReplyDeleteI believe that a successful conversation, for Socrates, was one in which questions are asked and each member of the conversation searches for the answer. I think that by 'wisdom', Socrates means that in order to gain knowledge, be self-aware, know that you dont know everything, and ask questions.
2. What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
The theory that Plato's story is connected with is the theory of forms. I do think that, at least in some point in each of our lives, we'll find ourselves "stuck in a cave." We don't always know what the best move forward is, therefore leaving us feeling lost.
3. What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal?
Socrates said that his inner voice encourages him to ask questions. I think that we all have an inner voice, whether its a metaphorical sense of calling or the literal sense of being alone with your thoughts.
I also agree that we all have an inner voice. I love the way you stated the more literal sense of us being alone with our thoughts!
DeleteI really resonate with the perspective that we all get stuck in a cave. Knowing that Plato used shadows to mirror the power of influence, relating to that feeling of confusion and immobility further enforces that universal experience.
DeleteQuestion 1: What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
ReplyDeleteResponse 1: For Socrates, a good conversation was not so much about receiving knowledge, or even teaching a person what to know, as it was about encouraging examination of one's own thoughts and beliefs, and critical thinking. Success, in a Socratic sense, was a conversation which led to an increased awareness, often with the help of questioning and disproving of assumptions. He was more interested in asking the right questions than in giving the right answers. Ideally, conversations should make people see how little they do know, a process Socrates called “the unexamined life is not worth living."
Question 2: What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
DeleteResponse 2: Plato's Allegory of the Cave is linked with his Theory of Forms which is the idea that the material world is just a shadow of some higher perfect realm of Forms or ideas in the material world. The allegory describes how the majority of people are ignorant, and only see imperfect reflections of reality. In The Socrates Express Eric Weiner argues that, figuratively speaking, many humans are "stuck in a cave" by their limited perceptions, beliefs and biases, which keep them in the cave. It takes critical, inner reflection and a desire for higher knowledge to break free. We can all be "in the cave" allegorically, yes, but we can all also leave.
Question 3: What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal?
Response 3: In The Socrates Express Eric Weiner explains how Socrates would often refer to his "inner voice," or daimonion, some kind of divine sign or voice that helped guide him, especially in the context of moral decision making. It would caution him against certain courses of action, leading him around doing wrong, Socrates claimed it. Whether or not this 'inner voice' is literal and not something he is putting in quotes is open to interpretation. This could be taken literally as a spiritual or supernatural guide, or rather as a figurative representation of intuition or conscience. Weiner notes it could be more a matter of Socrates' deep self awareness, his moral compass, than anything supernatural.
1. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom? I think for him, a successful conversation was one where he made the other person question their beliefs and values (asshole move). wisdom? maybe to know more than the next person about a certain toppic
ReplyDelete2. What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave? Yes! there are many many people i come across that are mentally stuck in a cave, there is a certain book though that i know if every single person read and followed, we would have "peace on earth"
3. What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal?
tell him right from wrong, i think he was schizophrenic
John Gabriel, i forgot to remove "asshole move", my bad
Delete2. What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave? I think in a sense we are all stuck in some sort of cave replaying motions and just going through the day with how we view things. I think with the world we live in it is hard to take the blinders off and truly find out what is happening around us. Like the people in the cave who just assumed it was normal, then the man got free and tried to explain what was really going on no one believed him.
ReplyDelete1."Philosopher" means what? Philosophy was what, in ancient Athens? (Introduction)
In ancient Athen's philosophy was how we should live to seek hippieness in a sense by asking questions as well as someone who studies the fundamental questions of human existence, or "love of wisdom”.
1.The Socratic dialogues consisted of what kinds of conversations? Do you enjoy participating in such conversations? The Socratic dialogues consisted of conversations focused on deep questioning and critical thinking. I enjoy asking people the questions because it makes them question their life.
-McKinsley Slicker section 005
1. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
ReplyDelete-Socrates felt a successful conversation with someone would leave them deeply reflecting their own beliefs. One should always respond to someone with deep questions that cause them to really break down their viewpoints and maybe even lose some confidence in what they initially felt. He liked to expose a lack of understanding in who he spoke to.
2. What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
-Plato's story of the cave explains how one only sees a fraction of what's really there. Many see what they want, many see what they perceive to be real, and many are limited to what they can see. There are two worlds out there; the one we, as individuals see and the real world. I believe everyone is stuck in these caves. Everyone sees two worlds because everyone has biases and everyone is a product of their environment.
3. What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal?
-Socrates' inner voice told him not to be submissive to the authority around him, whether you interpret that to be teachers, government, or whatever authority you are submissive to is to you. I believe the voice could be argued literal or figurative.
1. A successful conversation for Socrates would leave the individual he was conversing with a sense that they truly do not know the topic of discussion as much as they believe. This is tied with Socrates beliefs in regards to wisdom. His interpretation of wisdom was not based on "facts" or knowledge, it was about asking questions.
ReplyDelete2. "Plato's Cave" is connected with the Theory of Forms. I certainly believe that a good portion of the population is shackled to this cave even today. Many are shackled to their current ideology and beliefs that may be bigoted or not, either way they don't see the wide range of different ideologies and cultures that are in the real world that they are not exposed to.
3. Socrates had an Inner voice that told him to "Question everything." This "inner voice" is in all of us whether we notice it on a daily basis or not. This voice is helping us make decisions on a day to day basis. In regards to Socrates, his voice was telling him not to believe everything the powers at be are spewing out.
Question 1: The kind of conversation that Socrates considered successful was the conversations that left everyone realizing just how little they actually knew. The story about the military commander who thought he knew what courage was, then turned around 20 minutes later utterly confused put things into perspective. It made me understand what was meant when it was said that he asked questions that left people genuinely confused.
ReplyDeleteQuestion 2: Plato's story about the people chained up facing the wall of the cave connects to his idea that appearances and reality are not the same. It shows that we may only see a certain side of things, but it may not be the true reality of the situation.
Question 3: The "inner voice" told him which way to lean morally and to be cautious with certain situations. I think "inner voice" is referring to his conscience and the way it has guided him morally though life.
1. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
ReplyDeleteA successful conversation for Socrates was when he made people question what they thought they knew. At first his view on wisdom was having all the answers, but he finds out that it's really the willingness to question and find deeper meaning to things.
2. What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
Some people can't help but be stuck in that cave because they are sheltered from what they can know, but others refuse to see the light. Some are scared to face the truth and would rather live in ignorance as some sort of peace.
3. What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal?
His inner voice told him to keep questioning everything. It's more like a gut feeling. Some people just get this feeling that they need to know more and can't help but follow that feeling.
Emma Shackleford
DeleteMy question is, did Socrates have something mental going on or is he just openminded unlike everyone else he was surrounded with at the time?
ReplyDeleteIts very possible that Socrates fell into some layer of mental spectrum. You'll find that even in modern day, individuals with a layer of neurodivergence do tend to be more open minded individuals and are much more likely to pursue truth and whats right as opposed to settling into the status quo. This could be in part due to living in a society that caters to the status quo. As outsiders, we never fully rooted ourselves in the foundations created by that society so our reality in comparison to others is already often called into question.
DeleteHenry Hamlin 006
ReplyDelete1. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
Socrates idea of a successful conversation was one where he would be able to puzzle someone and make them realize that there is so much more to the question as far as other opinions and perspectives, and be able to ultimately gain their wisdom from their perspective of the question. I think wisdom for Socrates means knowledge of anything possible, like many different perspectives and opinions.
2. What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
I'm not sure exactly what theory his story is connected to, however, I do think we stick, and keep, ourselves in caves by know opening up for other peoples opinions and insight. Being closed off to wisdom can be a way we keep ourselves in a cage even if its wisdom that we do not agree with.
3. What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal?
I think his "inner voice" is literal in a way. We all have a spirit and a mind and when we have new thoughts or new perspectives, that can be a way that our inner voice is speaking about trying something new. I think Socrates "inner voice" consisted of him understanding that he may not be "intelligent" in his beliefs in other peoples opinions, but he can expand his knowledge with just pure wisdom and beliefs and ideas, and he can at least be intelligent in the way that he has more understanding of how many different opinions and perspectives there are.
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ReplyDeleteA successful conversation for Socrates meant that the individual/s he engaged with left with the realization that they had more to learn. Wisdom, in Socrates' eyes, was embodied by an endless pursuit for knowledge and understanding. He sought to dig further into the depths of our reality and reveal it all to the world around him; even at the ultimate cost of his life.
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Plato’s theory of the cave is an allegory for cognitive dissonance. Religion, belief systems, laws, ect, form a structure that people can use to make sense of their lives. Even if it is misconstrued, a lie or imaginary, people attach to things that make them safe and provide a foundation in our reality; physically, mentally and spiritually. We are built for survival and these things are key for that survival. Anything that brings these foundations into question ultimately leads to confusion, discomfort and anger. The degree in which the person is able to override this natural process is what I believe leads them down the path of having a more philosophical outlook on life. Things are often not as simple as they seem at face value.
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I believe the idea of Socrates’ inner voice is a representation for his sense of self and what he built his foundation on. Ironically, even in the end, the philosopher himself falls short to cognitive dissonance. He argued in opposition to his condemnation rather than working to open their minds as he had done before; leaving his wife and sons behind to mourn him when he chose death. I believe most people will have some specific topic/s that they have difficulty facing in a malleable manner, regardless of their pursuit for wisdom.
Regarding Plato specifically, I find myself both agreeing and disagreeing with his philosophy on developing an appropriate society. All in all, it's a very expansive topic to decide the fate of society, but at its core we should honor a system of meritocracy. Having people who know best as opposed to who looks best in positions of power is ideal, but even with Plato’s example I foresee us falling into the danger of power hungry individuals and individuals with intentions counterproductive to society as a whole. The idea of voting being completely removed is also a flaw shown in his ideal society. People should be able to vote, but they also should be educated prior and be able to showcase an understanding of the effects that their vote holds.
Delete1. I find it very interesting that people found Socrates dangerous just because of how much he thought and how different he was from everyone else. I still see this in my day-to-day life. If you are a thinker and voice your thoughts, people are often intimidated by you. It really goes to show how closed-minded we have always been as a society
ReplyDeleteIt falls into the allegory Plato showed with the cave story. As I referenced in my comment prior, we are cognitively built for survival. However, our hard wired systems sometimes make the wrong calls, especially in a modern society. People are intimidated by change because change is uncertain. Facing your ideals creates the opportunity for a big foundational change and that is what people are ultimately intimidated by deep down.
Delete2. I found knowing the limits of what we know so interesting. No one wants to admit the boundaries of what they know, but there is so much power and wisdom in acknowledging that you do not know everything and cannot understand everything. I also found the line before so true; you need to know what you see because you discovered it, not just because someone of influence told you to believe it. I feel that is a lesson most people need to learn.
ReplyDelete3. "We make choices for ourselves: we decide what we want to do and be." I have been carrying this sentence with me for the past couple of days, which has changed my outlook. We get to decide the life we live and the person we want to be despite all the craziness of this life. It is empowering and motivating to think like this.
ReplyDelete1. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
ReplyDeleteIt seems that a successful conversation for Socrates was one in which he countered “simple” questions to prompt people to challenge their initial world view, consider different perspectives, and realize how narrow theirs might be. I think that wisdom for Socrates would look like trying to understand interconnectedness and holism, rather than being content to accept face-value fact and not consider broader perspectives.
2. What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
Plato’s cave story is connected to the Theory of Forms. I’m not sure that I would say that we’re all stuck in a cave. I think that the disconnect between the concept of Plato’s true forms and physical reality we live in is a flaw in this theory. For now, I think that there is value In recognizing Plato’s forms through imperfect examples in an imperfect world.
3. What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal?
Socrates’ inner voice encouraged him to never stop questioning everything and looking deeper into the world. Described as his “guide” I don’t think his inner voice was literal. I think that is is more like his subconscious and moral compass.
1a. What kind of conversation was a success, for Socrates, and what did he mean by wisdom?
ReplyDelete1b. The kind of conversation that was a success for Socrates was a conversation that ended with people questioning information they thought they knew. I think wisdom to Socrates was always being aware and open to new information even if it goes opposes what you thought you knew already.
2a.What theory is Plato's story of the cave connected with? Do you think some or all humans are naturally, in some allegorical sense, stuck in a cave?
2b. The theory Plato's story about the cave is connected to the Theory of Forms. I think some humans can find themselves stuck in a cave. I think another way to look at the cave is a routine. Once people stuck in the cave are consistently seeing the shadows on the wall they know they will see again and again. However the fear of leaving the cave (breaking the routine) frightens them as they don't know what they will see once they exit and what they will do after.
3a. What did Socrates say his inner voice told him? Do you think "inner voice" is literal?
3b. Socrates says his inner voice told him to continue questioning any and everything. I don't think his inner voice is literal. I think Socrates had an epiphany if anything and that he realized nothing is stopping him or anyone to question or challenge information even if the general consensus thought it to be the truth.
I can say that I relate somewhat to the second question. Since attending MTSU I have found myself in situations where I realized I was stuck in a cave. When I was given tasks in my previous classes I realized that I was constantly boxing myself in and when shown a different way I'd be shocked and then realize my self-made box was silly.
DeleteSocrates believed that a successful conversation was one where the participating individuals left doubting their previously held beliefs. I don't know if I agree with this entirely because I can imagine some circumstances in which this wouldn't be the most beneficial. However, for the most part, I do think he is right. If you're too arrogant to listen to the other person's perspective and are completely unshaken by their arguments, I believe that shows that you are not an open minded individual truly seeking to find the truth. If you were *really* looking for the truth, you would listen and try to see things from their point of view, and this could cause you to rethink your own opinions.
ReplyDelete1a. The idea was to have discussions and debates about everything so you can keep yourself open to change in thinking
ReplyDelete2a. The cave is a symbol of not going and meeting people isolating yourself out of fear and fear of the shadows that are gonna be there because of the cave
3a. Plato’s voice was telling to question everything. I don’t know if it was like multiple personality or whatever but I think it’s like there’s no point in not going out and meeting people and asking questions that pop in your head.
I think that Socrates inner voice is a reflection of his motivation and state of mind. Whilst his inner voice isnt an actual voice, it is still an important defining feature to his character, and many philosophers after socrates
ReplyDelete1. For Socrates, a successful conversation was one that led someone to question themselves, and defined wisdom as understanding the limits of one's knowledge.
ReplyDelete2. Plato's story of the cave is connected with his theory of Forms, which suggests, in a hypothetical sense, all humans could be seen as stuck in a cave, mistaking experiences for ultimate reality unless they searched for some deeper truths.
3. Socrates said his inner voice told him to not stop asking questions. But no, I do not think this "inner voice" is literal but a forum of his inner self guiding him to do/think more.
As for number two, It reminds me of the matrix where morpheus says that some people are not ready to be woken up, meaning they are complacent with their lives just like the people in the cave. Not everyone is going to be a philosopher simply because it isn't in their interest.
ReplyDelete1- In my opinion, it would be religion. Religion is often confused with that it is only for the sole purpose of going to heaven instead of hell. which in my opinion comes from the kind of impression you have about it. But once you realize that religion is a lifestyle you would recognize that it is one of the unexplained wonders of life and human history.
ReplyDelete2- no I do not agree that a part of understanding ourselves comes from understanding others, Because everyone's psychology is different from the other person. I think if we associate our self-understanding to understanding other people it will lead to confusion on who are we and what is our purpose and what we want to do with our life. However I think encountering different people and hearing different opinions from them will lead to shaping and forming of people based on their chain of life events leading them to be who they are.
3- a philosopher is someone who has an open mind to challenge his own thoughts. or challenge the norm or the tradition that has been passed around for too long.
4- it would be "one truly philosophical problem is suicide" and no I do not agree with this statement. Suicide is rooted in oneself dilemma on whether they are satisfied with who they are as a person. and what are they willing to do to change that. It is either going to be actually changing themselves, or by hitting the escape button which is the easier way out. but they have just wasted their purpose, and their full potential because they decided to not actually change their reality but decided to end it instead.