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Delight Springs

Wednesday, September 13, 2023

Questions Sep 14

 Augustine, Boethius, Anselm, Aquinas-LH 6-8. FL 9-10, HWT 9-10

 LH

1. How did Augustine "solve" the problem of evil in his younger days, and then after his conversion to Christianity? Why wasn't it such a problem for him originally?

2. What does Boethius not mention about himself in The Consolation of Philosophy?

3. Boethius' "recollection of ideas" can be traced back to what philosopher?

4. What uniquely self-validating idea did Anselm say we have?

5. Gaunilo criticized Anselm's reasoning using what example?

6. What was Aquinas' 2nd Way?

FL
1. How did Enlightenment values advance in America in the 19th century?

2. What fantasy about 1776 has been accepted as fact by Americans across the religious spectrum (and Ronald Reagan) ever since?

3. How was religion in America, unlike Europe, non-binary?

4. How did Thomas Jefferson characterize America's religious differences in the north and the south?

5. What happened in Cane Ridge, KY in 1801, and how did a Vanderbilt historian describe it?

6. Who was Charles Finney, and what did he understand about American Christianity?

7. What did de Tocqueville say was different about religion in America, compared to Europe?

8. Who was William Miller and what beliefs did he help revive?

9. Who was Joseph Smith and what is the most interesting thing about him?

HWT
1. What fundamental and non-western sense of time has underpinned much of human history?

2. What is "dreamtime" and how is it alien to the modern west?

3. The universalism of western universities implies that what is unimportant?

4. What does John Gray say about the idea of progress?

5. Karma originally concerned what, and lacked what connotations now commonly associated with it?

6. What western ideas have displaced karma, for many young Indians?


Discussion Questions
  • [Add your own DQs]
  • Would the existence of evil equivalent to good, without guarantees of tthe inevitable triiumph of the latter, solve the problem of suffering?
  • Why do you think Boethius didn't write "The Consolation of Christianity"? 
  • Do you think you have a clear idea of what it would mean for there to be an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good supernatural being?
  • Do you think knowledge is really a form of remembering or recollection? Have we just forgotten what we knew?
  • Is there a difference between an uncaused cause (or unmoved mover) and a god?
  • Which is the more plausible explanation of the extent of gratuitous suffering in the world, that God exists but is not more powerful than Satan, or that neither God nor Satan exists? Why?
  • Are supernatural stories of faith, redemption, and salvation more comforting to you than the power of reason and evidence? Why or why not?
  • What do you think of the Manichean idea that an "evil God created the earth and emtombed our souls in the prisons of our bodies"? (Dream of Reason 392)
  • Do you agree with Augustine about "the main message of Christianity...that man needs a great deal of help"? (DR 395). If so, must "help" take the form of supernatural salvation? If not, what do you think the message is? What kind of help do we need?
  • What do you think of Boethius' proposed solution to the puzzle of free will, that from a divine point of view there's no difference between past, present, and future? 402
  • Did Russell "demolish" Anselm's ontological argument? (See below)
  • COMMENT: “The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” Carl Sagan
  • COMMENT: “Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light‐years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual. So are our emotions in the presence of great art or music or literature, or acts of exemplary selfless courage such as those of Mohandas Gandhi or Martin Luther King, Jr. The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both.”  Carl Sagan
  • If you were falsely imprisoned, tortured, and scheduled for execution, would you be able to achieve "consolation"? How?
  • Can the definition of a word prove anything about the world?
  • Is theoretical simplicity always better, even if the universe is complex?
  • Does the possibility of other worlds somehow diminish humanity? 
  • How does the definition of God as omniscient, omnipotent, and perfectly good make it harder to account for evil and suffering in the world? Would it be better to believe in a lesser god, or no god at all?
  • Can you explain the concept of Original Sin? Do you think you understand it?
  • Is it better to embrace (or renounce) religious faith early in life, or to "sow your wild oats" and enjoy a wide experience of the world before committing to any particular tradition or belief? Were you encouraged by adults, in childhood, to make a public profession of faith? If so, did you understand what that meant or entailed?
  • Does the concept of a never-ending struggle between good and evil appeal to you? Does it make sense, in the light of whatever else you believe? Would there be anything "wrong" with a world in which good was already triumphant, happiness for all already secured, kindness and compassion unrivaled by hatred and cruelty?
  • Do you find the concept of Original Sin compelling, difficult, unfair, or dubious? In general, do we "inherit the sins of our fathers (and mothers)"? If yes, give examples and explain.
  • What kinds of present-day McCarthyism can you see? Is socialism the new communism? How are alternate political philosophies discouraged in America, and where would you place yourself on the spectrum?
  • Andersen notes that since WWII "mainline" Christian denominations were peaking (and, as evidence shows, are now declining). What do you think about this when you consider the visible political power of other evangelical denominations? Are you a part of a mainline traditon? If so, how would you explain this shift?
==
If our brains seem to be a step ahead of our minds, does that mean we do not possess free will?
 
Are all our actions inevitable? (Don't confuse that with ineffable.)
 
Is belief in free will better for some of us, while belief in determinism is better advised for others?
 

"Liberty consists in doing what one desires." — John Stuart Mill (But what if you always desire to do what nature has determined that you'll do? Is liberty the same as free will, if you couldn't have done otherwise... whether or not you desired to? What if you were a domino in one of those elaborately-prepared configurations, and you desired nothing more of life than to topple elegantly when your time came? Should we call you free?

The first sin that Augustine remembers doing was as a child stealing pears, just to steal them. That is, it was the crime itself that made him want to do it, he didn't even want the pears, he just wanted to sin. It was his "original sin" in a sense, and he always felt most guilty about it.
==
==



 
I share these provocative cartoons not in hostility to religion, but because they reflect genuine puzzlements some of us have regarding the seeming incongruity of saying that God is ineffable AND being confident that one knows God's precise attitudes towards quite specific human concerns... and regarding the paradox of human free will in a universe allegedly governed by omniscience. I hope we'll all choose not to take offense, but to think about and discuss the experiences of ineffability, faith, agency, the unseen objects of belief, etc. 
 


 

50 comments:

  1. Section #11
    1. In Augustine's younger days he solved the problem of evil by saying sometimes evil won and overtook good. He used this idea by saying that God and Satan were in a constant battle for power where both beings were equally as strong. After he converted to Christianity, he said that evil simply came from the existence of free will. This means we ultimately have the power to choose evil. Evil wasn't a problem for him originally because he didn't accept God as supremely powerful.

    2. He doesn't mention that he was an early Christian.

    3. His recollection of ideas can be traced back to Plato.

    4. He said we have the idea of God so he must exist.

    5. Gaunilo criticized Anselm's reasoning by using the island example. In this example he pointed out that if you have an idea in your mind of the perfect island, but know it does not really exist, why would you believe in a perfect God.

    6. Aquinas second way was that each thing that exists was brought for a cause and a purpose to be what it is.

    ReplyDelete
  2. 1. Augustine "solved" the problem of evil in his younger days by thinking there was a never-ending war between God and the devil over good and evil, and that neither was strong enough to overpower the other, and then by rationalizing it as free will after his conversion to Christianity. It wasn't such a problem for him originally because he didn't live a life committed to Christianity, and I believe he didn't fully trust in or understand God (though none of us can ever fully understand Him) at that time and didn't want to fully surrender to the faith yet.

    2. Boethius did not mention that he was an early Christian in The Consolation of Philosophy.

    3. Boethius' "recollection of ideas" can be traced back to Plato.

    4. The uniquely self-validating idea Anselm said we have is that if we have an idea of God, that he must exist.

    5. Gaunilo criticized Anselm's reasoning using the thought example of a perfect island, saying that the mere thought of it cannot conjure it into existence because no one would agree on their version of the perfect island, but rather the example only works for God.

    6. Aquinas' 2nd Way was the First Cause Argument. This states that everything has a cause, its cause has a cause, and so on and so forth, until you get to the very beginning and come to the uncaused cause, God.

    ReplyDelete
  3. As a Christian, I would also like to say that I believe there is evil in the world, not because God isn't here, but rather because He isn't a strong presence in many of our lives. One way I heard it said was, "The existence of evil doesn't indicate the absence of God from the world, but the absence of him from our lives." Additionally, I believe that even though God is all-knowing, He does still give us free will to make our own choices. Just as we have the choice to do good, "evil" people have the choice to do good rather than evil. I'm not trying to push my faith in any way, but I did want to say it in the way that I understand it for those who may question the concept. I would also be interested in any of your beliefs and your reasonings as to why you do (or don't) believe if anyone feels like sharing.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. #11
      I completely agree with you. I think as a Christian God has the power to wipe all evil from the world and make it perfect, but doing so would take away all free will. If there was nothing but good in the world people would not be able to choose God because he would be the only option and God wants us to have the choice to be with Him. In our class, we discussed how there are "bad" events that happen that aren't related to human actions such as disease and earthquakes, but if there was no God, how would we know what is bad and what is good. I'm not going to try to determine why these tragedies occur and why God lets them happen. Perhaps it is all part of His greater plan that no one alive could even start to understand but what I do know is that humans have a moral code instilled in us that can help us tell right from wrong: a conscience. Everyone knows cold blooded murder is wrong even if it was never taught to us, it's something we're born knowing. Like many things, we can separate good from evil and knowing that there is evil in the world means that there must be good since there can't be one without the other. Evil is a result from the absence of good so if we know there is evil then there must therefore be good. And since we innately know the difference in a lot of cases I think that is proof in the presence of God. I'd love to discuss this further with anyone.

      Delete
  4. 1. How did Augustine "solve" the problem of evil in his younger days, and then after his conversion to Christianity? Why wasn't it such a problem for him originally?

    He was a Manichaean, he believed god wasn't supremely powerful and was being opposed and equally great force of evil. It later became difficult again for him as he still questioned why God allowed evil. He figured we have free will.

    2. What does Boethius not mention about himself in The Consolation of Philosophy?

    He does not mention he is a Christian. I would also greatly assume he did not even mention his favourite colour, how absurd.

    3. Boethius' "recollection of ideas" can be traced back to what philosopher?

    It was similar to Plato.

    4. What uniquely self-validating idea did Anselm say we have?

    He said we all have an idea of God. We understand it, despite our belief. We can even believe it's existence.

    5. Gaunilo criticized Anselm's reasoning using what example?

    A concept that involves perfect islands, imaginary and real. It was a way to reveal the flaws in Anselm's argument.

    6. What was Aquinas' 2nd Way?

    Everything is a series of effects and causes, and could possibly be traced back to a point of origin.

    - Kelly Molloy, Section #13

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'd like to say that I consider myself Agnostic, but I thoroughly enjoyed these chapters because it gave me a new perspective. I felt as though all these philosophers had varying points of morality and God, and I feel they are all respectable in their own ways. I found myself really thinking about it.

      Delete
  5. #11
    1. Augustine solved the problem of evil in his younger days by being involved in Manichaeism, which basically was a belief that god didn’t have the supreme power over everyone. He believed that everyone was significantly strong and no one could overpower the other.they believed that goodness came from the soul and evil came from the body. He converted to the christian idea in later life because he started to believe that why couldn’t god win?
    2. Boethius didn’t mention that he was an early christian.
    3. His ideas could be traced back to Platos concepts.
    4. Anselm in simple terms stated that since we have an idea or even believe in god, that means that god actually exists. I find this thought to be very interesting.
    5. Gaunilo used a scenario of an island that had almost everything. it was wealthy and had all the food you could think of. The island was untouchable to anyone. He went on to say that what if someone told you it was real.
    6. The argument was based on one that Aristotle made. He wanted to use reason to prove that god was real. It was the first clause arguement.

    ReplyDelete
  6. LHP
    1. Augustine claimed that evil could happen because evil won and overcame good in a battle. God and Satan are in an constant battle, good verses evil, for power. Evil is from the existence of free will, and that we can choose good or evil.
    2. Boethius did not mention that he was a early christian in the book, only in other writings did he hint at it.
    3. Boethius has lots of ideas similar to Plato
    4. If an Idea of god exists, then god himself exists
    5. Using the example of a perfect island , this cannot be because no one would agree on the same version
    6. Everything that exists has a cause and a purpose.

    FL
    1. We got telegraphy, high-speed printing presses, railroads, steamships, vaccinations, and anthesia.'
    2. In the Fourth of July, 1776 A angel figure mysteriously appeared among the Founders and gives a speech that makes them all agree and sign the Declaration
    3. It made it so all religions could be practiced.
    4.In the North they are superstitious and hypocritical, in the south they are without attachment or pretensions to any religion than their own
    5. 20 Thousand people arrived, overcome with religious joy, and stayed about a week. This was a Woodstock for American Christians', mass spectacle that symbolized a new way of thinkin g or acting, a new subculture
    6. Charles Finley was "a man who met jesus", a lawyer, and a Presbyterian minister. He believed religion should be like show Bizz.
    7. He says men in America are full of enthusiasm, excitement, fantastical, and European men are clam and collected
    8. William Miller was a born-again Baptist preacher who revived belief that Jesus's and god would come to earth and begin the religious apocalypse.
    9. Young nobody living in rural western New York. Saw visions of christ. It was interesting that he started out doing more supernatural acts than godly acts like "seer stones"

    DQ
    Can the definition of a word prove anything about the world?
    No, words change meaning so often one word cannot explain the world, you need multiple pieces for your puzzle.

    Section 13

    ReplyDelete
  7. #10

    1. Before Augustine converted to Christianity he believed that evil came from evil forces (Satan) and that God and Satan were in a never-ending war for dominance. After Augustine converted to Christianity he realized that God had given people free will and that this free will allowed people to make good and evil choices. The problem of evil was not a problem for him originally because God was not considered supremely powerful therefore he could not control evil.

    2. In the book The Consolation of Philosophy Boethius does not mention that he is a Christian.

    3. In Boethius’ book, The Consolation of Philosophy, the character's Philosophy reminds Boethius of what he already knows. The “recollection of ideas” stems from Plato’s beliefs that we never learn anything new, we just have our memories jogged.

    4. Anselm believed that people can't have an idea of God if God does not exist.

    5. Gaunilo considered Anselm’s reasoning about God’s existence weak and he criticized Anselm’s reasoning by using the example of “the perfect island.” Guanilo pointed out that just because you can imagine something does not make it real.

    6. Aquinas’ 2nd Way was known as “the first cause.” Aquinas believed that everything is caused by something and that there has to be a starting point for all of those causes. He justified God’s existence by explaining that God was the first cause.

    ReplyDelete
  8. 1. In his younger days Augustine was a Macichaean which changed his outlook on the problem of God allowing evil to happen. After his conversion to Christianity, he concluded that free will is what allowed evil to happen. He was not originally a Christian so the idea of evil did not concern him.

    2. He does not mention that he is an early Christian in The Consolation of Philosophy.

    3. His "recollection of ideas" can be traced back to Plato.

    4. The fact that we have an idea of God proves that God exists.

    5. He used the example of imagining a perfect island in your mind. Just because you are able to picture this perfect island in your mind does not mean that it must be a real place.

    6. He states that everything must have a cause. If you chain every event from the beginning of time with their cause and effect, eventually you would reach the beginning of this chain where there was no initial cause for the effect. This very beginning cause would have to be God.

    ReplyDelete
  9. LHP 6-8
    1. In his younger days, Augustine solved the problem of evil by taking a Manichaean approach. He believed that God was not supremely powerful and that there was an ongoing struggle between good and evil. Sometimes evil won, and sometimes good won. After his conversion, he believed that free will explained the presence of evil in the world.
    2. Boethius doesn’t mention he’s a Christian in his book.
    3. His “recollection of ideas” can be traced back to Plato.
    4. Anselm said that the fact we have an idea of God proves that God actually exists.
    5. Gaunilo argued that you can’t conjure up anything perfect in your mind just by thinking about it, and he used an island as the example.
    6. Aquinas’s 2nd way was the First Cause Argument. This argument stated that there is not an infinite chain of causes for everything. Somewhere, there is an uncaused cause, and this was God.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Matteo D'Urso (Section 13)September 14, 2023 at 12:37 AM

    Q1. How did Augustine "solve" the problem of evil in his younger days, and then after his conversion to Christianity? Why wasn't it such a problem for him originally?

    A1. Younger: God wasn't all powerful. Older: The free will defense. He wasn't as religious when he was a young man.

    Q2. What does Boethius not mention about himself in The Consolation of Philosophy?

    A2. That he was Christian.

    Q3. Boethius' "recollection of ideas" can be traced back to what philosopher?

    A3. Plato.

    Q4. What uniquely self-validating idea did Anselm say we have?

    A4. That because we can imagine something, that something's perfect version must exist somewhere.

    Q5. Gaunilo criticized Anselm's reasoning using what example?

    A5. The perfect island.

    Q6. What was Aquinas' 2nd Way?

    A6. The First Cause Argument.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Section 11:
    LHP
    1. He asked God to make him stop having sexual desires about women. His mother was a Christian.
    2. He didn't put in the book that he was an early Christian.
    3.Plato, much of what Boethius wrote was related back to Plato.
    4. We all have an idea of God.
    5. The perfect Island story.
    6. If someone kept repeating the question of 'what caused that?' then at some point his response would be 'Nothing. This is an uncaused cause.' This was his second response, second way.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Section 11
    1. He believed that god wasn’t as powerful how he let evil still happen religion for him wasn’t a part of him when he was younger

    2. He never mentioned that he was a Christian

    3. Plato because that is who he related to and all he did was talk about him

    4. If we believe that it is true that it has to be real at some point

    5. He used the idea of a perfect island

    6. He used the first cause argument

    ReplyDelete
  13. Section 10
    1. In Augustine's younger days he was a Manichaean. Manichaean's believed that God was not all powerful and He was simply fighting Satan in the ultimate battle of good and evil. After Augustine's conversion to Christianity, he rejected the ideas of Manichaeans but still pondered why God would allow evil in the world. It never bothered him as much before because he did not believe that God was all powerful. A key concept of Christianity is that God is both all-powerful and all good, so if God was both why would He still allow evil things to happen? He eventually landed on the concept of free will. Humans have the choice between right and wrong, so because God gave humans the choice of doing the right thing that would still make Him all powerful.
    2. Boethius did not mention that he was a Christian.
    3. Most of Boethius' ideas can be traced back to Plato's philosophy.
    4. The fact that we have an idea of God proves that God exists.
    5. Gaunilo used the analogy of a "perfect island."
    6. The first cause argument. An argument that was based on that Aristotle. The first cause argument takes it all the way back to the beginning of everything. Something had to cause everything to exist, so that was Aquinas' argument for God's existence.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Section 10
    1. When Augustine was younger, he was a Manichaean, believing that God wasn’t actually all-powerful and was constantly struggling against Satan in a battle of good and evil. Later on, he converted to Christianity and decided that that didn’t really make sense, and the reason evil exists was actually because God gave us free will, and sometimes people make poor decisions.

    2. Boethius did not mention that he was a Christian in The Consolation of Philosophy.

    3. Boethius’ “recollection of ideas” can be traced back to Plato.
    Anselm believed that because we can have an idea of God, then God must exist. Personally, I don’t think this is very sound reasoning, but what do I know.

    4. Gaunilo described a perfect island and tried to apply the same thinking to it as Anselm did when arguing his case for the existence of a God, and it didn’t work.

    5. Aquinas’ Second Way was The First Cause Argument, in which he argued that it’s implausible for everything to have a cause, because then there would be an infinite string of causes and effects with no beginning. He used this as evidence that God must have been the uncaused cause, the reason behind everything and the first thing that ever existed. This also doesn’t really make sense to me, because, as Nigel Warburton himself pointed out, The First Cause Argument is no more logical than believing in the infinite chain of events that led us to life today; Aquinas’ answer is not better or worse.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Section #10
    1. Augustine solved the problem of evil in his younger days by believing good and evil were in a never-ending battle, so sometimes evil would win. After he converted to Christianity, he believed God give us free will, so that means he also gave us free will to be morally evil. This was not such a problem for him when he was younger because he was not as religious.

    2. Boethius never mentions he is a Christian.

    3. His "recollection of ideas" can be traced to Plato.

    4. He said that if we imagine or believe in something that it has some amount of existence.

    5. He used the example of a perfect island.

    6. The first cause argument and sometimes things did not always have many causes that there are uncaused causes.

    ReplyDelete
  16. #11
    1. When he was younger he was a Manichaeism and believed God and Satan struggled for control, intimately creating good and bad. When he converted he said it was the existence of free will. It wasn't a problem for him originally because he wasn't religious.

    2. He was a Christian.

    3. Plato.

    4. We all have an idea of God

    5. The perfect island scenario

    6. "The uncaused cause"

    ReplyDelete
  17. #13
    1. When he was young he avoided the belief that god wanted evil by becoming Manichaean, and then later on in his life he switched to christianity which then caused him to believe that evil only exists because god gave everyone free will.
    2. That he was a Christian
    3. Plato
    4. That everyone has an idea of what god is no matter their belieifs
    5. The perfect island scenario
    6. The first cause argument , and that sometimes events may not always have causes or uncaused cause

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. In class discussion: I think that free will is the cause of evil, because in my eyes no one is inherently evil, they choose to be that way and thats why there is evil and suffering in the world.

      Delete
  18. #11
    1. When Augustine was younger, he was a Manichaen and believed that God was not supremely powerful but instead that he was in a never ending struggle of good vs. evil against Satan. As Augustine got older, he didn't understand why the battle of good vs. evil would be never ending. He felt that would easily defeat Satan because the power of good is surely stronger than the power of evil. His solution to this problem led him to examine the existence of free will. He believed that God gives us all free will and allows to choose how we live, whether we do good or evil.
    2. Boethius did not mention that he was an early Christian
    3. Plato
    4. Anslem said that we all have an idea of God and since that is the case, God must exist.
    5. Guanillo used the example of a perfect island
    6. Aquinas' 2nd way was "the uncaused cause"

    ReplyDelete
  19. #11
    1. He was involved in Manichaeism which was believed that God did not have total power over his believers. Before he converted to christianity he did not understand that free will was what led evil to happen. He believed that no one had greater power than the other and that they could not overpower one another.
    2. Boethius never mentioned that he was a Christian.
    3. He shadowed Plato's concepts.
    4. Anselm said that if we have an idea of God then he must exist.
    5. Gaunilo went on to say that Anselm idea was not right be using the example of "a perfect island". He was trying to make the point that just because you can imagine it does not mean that it is real.
    6. Aquinas understood that everything has a cause. He called this the "first cause". This all started because God was the first cause

    ReplyDelete
  20. 1. How did Augustine "solve" the problem of evil in his younger days, and then after his conversion to Christianity? Why wasn't it such a problem for him originally?
    Augustine solved the problem of evil in his younger days by stating that even god struggled with fighting satan so it was a never ending battle between good and evil, but good would triumph over. Later in life he tried to explain it by the free will defense, that God gave us free will so people could do evil things. It wasn't a problem for him originally because he wasn't religious so he didn't think about it too much.

    2. What does Boethius not mention about himself in The Consolation of Philosophy?
    He never mentioned that he was a Christian in the consolation of philosophy.

    3. Boethius' "recollection of ideas" can be traced back to what philosopher?
    His recollection of ideas can be traced back to the philosopher Plato and his philosophies.

    4. What uniquely self-validating idea did Anselm say we have?
    That we all have an ideal of god, and that if we all believe in something so much it does exist.

    5. Gaunilo criticized Anselm's reasoning using what example?
    Gaunilo used the perfect island ideal to Anselm's reasoning.

    6. What was Aquinas' 2nd Way?
    The first caused argument also known as the uncaused cause.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Section 10
    LHP
    1. How did Augustine "solve" the problem of evil in his younger days, and then after his conversion to Christianity? Why wasn't it such a problem for him originally?
    In his younger days Augustine had a way of avoiding believing that God wanted evil to happen. As a Manichaeans he believed that God wasn’t supremely powerful. Instead, there was a never-ending struggle going on between equal forces of good and evil. So on this view, God and Satan were locked in an ongoing battle for control. Both were immensely strong, but neither was powerful enough to defeat the other. In particular places at particular times, evil got the upper hand. But never for long. Goodness would return and triumph over evil again. However, he came to reject the Manichaean approach. His main solution was based on the existence of free will: the human ability to choose what we will do next.
    2. What does Boethius not mention about himself in The Consolation of Philosophy?
    He was a Christian.
    3. Boethius' "recollection of ideas" can be traced back to what philosopher?
    Plato
    4. What uniquely self-validating idea did Anselm say we have?
    We have an idea of a perfect God. The fact that we have an idea of God proves that God actually exists.
    5. Gaunilo criticizes Anselm's reasoning using what example?
    Perfect Island
    6. What was Aquinas' 2nd Way?
    The first cause


    ReplyDelete
  22. #11
    LHP
    1. In his younger days, Augustine just found a way to avoid the idea of God wanting evil to happen. He was a Manichaean, a person who believed that God isn't "all powerful" But he later turned away from that idea because he couldn't grasp the idea that the battle of good and evil was never ending. He started to understand the idea of free will. That God gives us free will, and we have choices of good or evil.
    2. The Consolation of Philosophy does not mention that Boethius was an early Christian.
    3. A lot of his ideas resonate with those of Plato's.
    4. We all have an idea of God and what that means. No matter if we believe it or not
    5. An example of a perfect island that no one can reach.
    6. The First Cause Argument. There has to be a starting point to everything there is.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Makenzie keen
    Section 13
    LH
    1. Augustine solved the problem of evil in his younger days by participating in Manichaeism, a belief that God was not an all-powerful, supreme being. They believed that there was a constant battle between good and evil. Augustine later believed that the power of free will is where the real battle lies- this is what made him convert to Christian ideals, since if we all had the power to choose, why not choose good over evil?
    2.Boethius does not mention that he was a Christian in “The Consolation of Philosophy.”
    3. Boethius' “recollection of ideas” could be traced back to Plato, they had very similar ideals.
    4.Anselm says that the definition of the term “God,” is all the proof that we need to prove that God is real.
    5.Gaunilo criticized Anselm's reasoning using “the perfect island” example. He says if you were to imagine this perfect island, that does not make it real, just because you can conceive of something, does not make it real.
    6.Aquinas’ second way was the first cause argument, an argument based on one of Aristotle's ideals, he states that everything had to of come from something, he uses the cosmos as an example, stating that something had to have existed to create them.

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  24. section 11
    Class
    as a group we discussed that through Augustine's theory of good and evil we should be able to diced for our selfs using our own moral code between the differences of "good" and "evil."
    we also discussed that we all have strong believes of good we didnt come up with them ideas, they were implemented by other people as we were being molded.

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  25. In class discussion (stayed inside) #11 We discussed how difficult it can be to draw the line of right or wrong morals. Different people believe different things, and it will always be that way. While everyone here believes in god their perceptions of him still differ. We believe nobody could know what an all powerful all knowing being would truly mean, simply because the idea is too powerful.

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  26. #11
    in-class summary:
    As a group we agreed about Augustine's problem with "good" and "evil" that we should be able to decide with our morals how to decide between "good" and "evil". While we all have strong idea of God we agreed that someone has put that idea in our mind. While Gaunilo has a point with the "perfect island" but it also does not mean the Anselm was completely wrong. I agree that there is a God and that he was the first cause so that is why people have such an understanding about him. Not everyone has the same beliefs about him and I guess that is what Gaunilo was trying to reference the "perfect island" by. With answering the discussion question about being "an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good supernatural being" I disagree with because no one holds this much power over themselves and everyone around them. Even if they did would everyone believe them and not have any doubts?

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  27. Kyle Pulley (section #11)September 14, 2023 at 11:56 AM

    Class Discussion Stayed Inside
    We discussed that it is hard to find the difference between what is morally right and wrong. What some people think is right could be morally wrong for the others, so it is not black and white. Even though we all have an idea of God it could not be true since many people over the span of our lives have told us that idea over and over again. Since we were not born with the idea of god or even religion in our thoughts. As well as the perfect island theory, since someone can imagine a perfect island and describe in detail doesn't make it real, which goes with the theory of religion, just because we believe in god doesn't make him real.
    Do you think you have a clear idea of what it would mean for there to be an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good supernatural being?
    No because power is so different for someone to be that powerful we think it would have showed up already, even though some people would relate that person to god in Christianity. As well as the ideal of someone that powerful is hard to imagine so people put that idea to god, so that people could have some sort of figure to look up too, and to blame or praise for the good/evil things in life.

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  28. 1. How did Augustine "solve" the problem of evil in his younger days, and then after his conversion to Christianity? Why wasn't it such a problem for him originally?
    when he was younger Augustine solved the problem of "evil" by stating that god struggled with fighting the "evil" therefor it was a never ending battle between good and evil. As he got older he explained it by thinking about it in the way that God gave us free will so people could choose between good and evil things.
    2. What does Boethius not mention about himself in The Consolation of Philosophy?
    He never mentioned his christianity.

    3. Boethius' "recollection of ideas" can be traced back to what philosopher?
    The philosopher Plato.

    4. What uniquely self-validating idea did Anselm say we have?
    he states that we all have a sort of ideal of god so in order to imagine a being of god there has to be on to exist to you.

    5. Gaunilo criticized Anselm's reasoning using what example?
    Gaunilo uses the ideal of a "perfect island."
    6. What was Aquinas' 2nd Way?
    The uncaused cause, also known as the "uncaused cause." saying that there has to be a starting point to everything.

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  29. 1. How did Augustine "solve" the problem of evil in his younger days, and then after his conversion to Christianity? Why wasn't it such a problem for him originally?
    When Augustine was younger he was a Manichaeism and believed that god was not as powerful and was battling fighting with satan. It was a constant battle between good vs. evil. Later he started to understand that evil was caused because God gave us the power of free will and we choose to do that. It was not such a problem for him originally because he wasn't religious.

    2. What does Boethius not mention about himself in The Consolation of Philosophy?
    Boethius does not mention that he was a Christian.

    3. Boethius' "recollection of ideas" can be traced back to what philosopher?
    It can be traced back to Plato.

    4. What uniquely self-validating idea did Anselm say we have? Anselm says that we all have an idea of God and that since we all believe, then it must exist.

    5. Gaunilo criticized Anselm's reasoning using what example? Gaunilo used the example of a "perfect island" scenario.

    6. What was Aquinas' 2nd Way?
    Aquinas' 2nd way was the first cause argument which was also known as the "uncaused case".

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  30. 13
    1. augustine dealt with evil by saying god is not all powerful because he is constantly in a fight against evil. He dealt with it later in life with the free will approach, which he didnt have a problem with because he wasnt religious initially.

    2. boethius's christianity wasnt mentioned

    3. plato

    4. the idea of god proves his existence

    5. perfect island example

    6. first cause argument

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    Replies
    1. Great discussion post Race!
      Our answers to these questions all align!

      Delete
  31. Angela Thongdinharath 13September 14, 2023 at 12:36 PM

    1.When Augustine was younger, he was conflicted about god’s possible inability to fight off evil. It led many people to believe God must have been allowing evil if God couldn’t fight it off. Augustine refused to believe that and begin involved Manichaeism. This region believed God wasn’t all power and instead of a fight of good and evil it allowed for people’s free will. This was never truly a problem because Augustine was always sceptical of God’s all-powerfulness.

    2.Boethius does not specifically mention he was an early Christian in The Consolation of Philosophy.

    3.The “recollection of ideas” from Boethius can be traced back to Plato's concept that philosophy reminds us of what we already know.

    4.Anselm believed that because we all have the idea of God proves that God must exist.

    5.Anselm uses the example of a painter who imagines a scene for painting and now the scene exists in his mind and in reality. This idea led Anselm assumes that one cannot imagine God without God existing. Though Gaunilo is Christian as well, he criticizes his example because it could work to explain the exist of almost everything.

    6.Aquinas 2nd way God could be real was called the First Cause Argument. He believed that logically everything in existence if you could track every step of its creation, it would be traced to one cause. The one cause was thought by Aquinas to be God, but later philosophers believed there’s nothing that could prove the First Cause was God.

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  32. #13

    1) Augustine solved the problem of evil in his younger days by believing that good and evil were consistently battling. Later in life, Augustine coped with this problem by answering it with the free will approach.

    2.) Boethius does not mention his religion.

    3.) Boethius' "recollection of ideas" can be traced back to Plato’s.

    4.) A uniquely self-validating idea did that Anselm said we have is that we all have an idea of God, therefore we subconsciously believe in him.

    5.) Gaunilo criticized Anselm's reasoning using the perfect island escape.

    6.) Aquinas' 2nd Way was the first cause argument.

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  33. #13
    1. He had an ideal that everyone was equal and no one should have power over one another.
    2.he doesn't mention his religion.
    3.Can be traced back to Plato
    4.We all have an idea of God which proves his existance
    5.He uses a perfect island example
    6. The second way was his first cause agreement.

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  34. #13

    LH 6-8

    1. How did Augustine "solve" the problem of evil in his younger days, and then after his conversion to Christianity? Why wasn't it such a problem for him originally?


    Initially he rationalized it by saying that there was a constant battle between good and evil, and victories would vary for both sides. However, this view was challenged when he became a Christian because in Christianity God is all powerful and satan is under his dominion.


    2. What does Boethius not mention about himself in The Consolation of Philosophy?


    He doesn't mention that he was a early Christian


    3. Boethius' "recollection of ideas" can be traced back to what philosopher?
    Plato


    4. What uniquely self-validating idea did Anselm say we have?


    He said that because we have the idea of God he has to exist


    5. Gaunilo criticized Anselm's reasoning using what example?


    He used the island example which stated that you if you can imagine a perfect island but it doesn’t exist then how could we use that reasoning for God.


    6. What was Aquinas' 2nd Way?

    The second way states that everything that exists is here for a purpose.

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    Replies
    1. Also I stayed in the room for this class today and we talked about free will and if God is good why does he let bad things happen. My opinion of free will from a religious perspective is that we all have free will. God imparts that aspect of himself onto us so that we may be free to do whatever we want. I think that without free will there is really no reason for Jesus. Then with the why does God let bad things happen to good people, again, from a religious perspective, it is for the Glorification of Himself. So that through the turmoil and through the pain we, 1. learn to develop. Because without both of those things we cannot truly understand life. And 2. Give people an opportunity to grow closer to Him. Often when we are at our lowest we run to God for help.

      Delete
  35. Ciara Rush Section 13September 14, 2023 at 1:30 PM

    LHP
    1. When Augustine was younger, he believed that God and evil were always up against one another. Later on in life, he realized humans have free will and that is what causes evil.

    2. Boethius never explicitly mentions his religion, that he was a Christian.

    3. Boethius' "recollection of ideas" can be traced back to Plato's philosophy.

    4. We all have an idea of God, and since we all have it, then it should exist. The definition of God is all we need to know he is real.

    5. A "perfect island" example.

    6. Aquinas second way was the first caused argumentment, the "uncaused cause" This says that there has to be a starting point to everything.

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  36. in class discussion!
    the group that stayed inside discussed the philosophy of Augustines, which is his younger belief that God cannot fight all evil because it is much too powerful, but later realized how God gave each person their own free will to decide for themselves whether or not they believe in him. this shows how you cannot say that God cannot fight all evil, because if you believe in him, then he can. we related this philosophy to our lives and spoke about how your mindset creates realities for you. you have a way of believing that the good outweighs the evil in your life if you don't let it define you and keep a positive mindset.

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  37. #11
    LHP
    1. Augustine originally believed that God and Satan were at a constant battle of good over evil on earth. After he converted to Christianity, his new philosophy and answer for why there was pain and suffering on earth was not that Satan was close to or as equally powerful as God but that humans have free will to choose good or evil.
    2. Boethius never mentioned that he was a Christian.
    3. Boethius' recollection of ideas could be traced back to Plato.
    4. Anselm said that since God is perceived as all powerful, he must be real since if he was not real, he would not be all powerful.
    5. Gaunilo said that this concept could be used for anything, such as the perfect island. Just because someone can imagine a perfect island does not mean it exists.
    6. Aquinas' second way to prove God's existence was that everything can be traced back to an event or process that created it, and that chain of events continues until you find an uncausable cause which has to be God since he is all powerful and has always been.

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  38. Discussion Question:
    Are supernatural stories of faith, redemption, and salvation more comforting to you than the power of reason and evidence? Why or why not?
    One of the question, that was in our groups discussion was that even thought most of us grew up in a church, and when I hear bible stories, of the sort of power of salvation, faith and etc. The comfort that I is that believe in god and and the sties and that all I need without any evidence.

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  39. 1. In the beginning Augustine was avoiding the whole thought of god seeking Evil to happen. He believed god wasn’t all holding all this power, but his mind started to change when he realized bad and good isn’t going away, he began to understand that he had the ill to be free, and he open and realized that god gave him the design to do nether good or bad.
    2. His belief was Christianity.
    3. That philosopher that could be traced was Plato
    4. People have an idea of god and it’s up to other to believe it or not.
    5. A disconnected island that is unreal from the world
    6. That everything has a bringing and started from somewhere .

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  40. LH #10

    1. How did Augustine "solve" the problem of evil in his younger days, and then after his conversion to Christianity? Why wasn't it such a problem for him originally?

    Blamed god/satan for evil on earth, but upon converting, he realized everyone has free will and make the decision of good or bad.

    2. What does Boethius not mention about himself in The Consolation of Philosophy?

    That he was Christian.

    3. Boethius' "recollection of ideas" can be traced back to what philosopher?

    Can be traced back to Plato.

    4. What uniquely self-validating idea did Anselm say we have?

    An idea of god, though it is up to everyone on whether they believe it or not.

    5. Gaunilo criticized Anselm's reasoning using what example?

    Believing in a perfect island, because believing it doesn’t mean it is real.

    6. What was Aquinas' 2nd Way?

    He said that everything can be traced back to something that created/caused it, but eventually you run into something that seemingly just happened and that can only be caused by god.

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