Presenters, post your report summaries (including at least one discussion question) in the comments space below.
Study Questions--
1. How did Mill disagree with Bentham about pleasure?
2. What view did Mill defend in On Liberty?
3. What's the benefit to society of open discussion, according to Mill, and what's wrong with being dogmatic?
4. Who did Bishop Wilberforce debate at Oxford in 1860?
5. The single best idea anyone ever had was what, according to whom?
6. What scientific developments since Darwin's time establish evolution by natural selection as more than just a theory or hypothesis?
7. Who was the Danish Socrates, and what was most of his writing about?
8. Why is faith irrational, according to Nigel Warburton?
9. What is "the subjective point of view"?
10. Why was Karl Marx angry? How did he think the whole of human history could be explained?
11. What was Marx's "vision"?
12. What did Marx call religion?
Discussion Questions
- Was Mill right about Bentham's account of happiness? Would you rather be a sad human or a happy pig? 139
- Was Mill right about the best way to organize society? 141
- Was Mill right about the importance of open discussion and free speech? 143
- What do you think of Huxley's reply to Wilberforce? 144
- Is Dennett right about Darwin's idea of natural selection? 146
- Darwin said the subject of God is too profound for the human intellect. 151 Agree?
- More on the Scopes Trial: re-visit the Fantasyland discussion from last week. Should the judge have allowed "my first landlord" and the other scientific experts to testify?
- If you heard a voice purporting to be God, telling you to murder your child, what would you do? 152
- Do you agree with Kierkegaard that faith is an irrational "leap"? 154
- Kierkegaard was a Christian who hated the Danish church and reviled "christendom"... Was he a good Christian? 155
- Is the "subjective point of view all-important"? 157
- Was Marx right about history as "class struggle"? 159
- What do you think of "Marx's vision"? 161
FL
- Do you watch TV (and YouTube, Netflix, etc.) and play video games as much as (or more than) the average American? 151 Do you think you watch too much? Do you read for pleasure?
- Were Walt Disney and Steve Jobs great Americans? Have their fantasy worlds made life better? 153-4
- What do you think of Hugh Hefner's Playboy philosophy? 157 [See Carlin Romano, America the Philosophical 272f.]
- What do you think of Billy Graham? 166-7 Do we need a national ad hoc pastor-in-chief?
- Should "under God" be in the pledge of allegiance? Should small children be made to recite a pledge? Should any of us pledge blind allegiance to anything? 167
- Do people who don't like churches and religions need something like Esalen? 178
- Are you New Age? Do you believe you "create your own reality"? 180
- Did psychotropics make America more of a fantasyland, in a bad or a good way (or both)? 186
- Do you talk to your plants? 187
HWT
- Is it more important to form good habits or to follow strong principles, in order to build your character and become a good person? Or both?
- If you pursue excellence (arete) in life will you be more likely to be happy? More or less likely to value happiness? What do these terms mean to you?
- Would you rather be Socrates dissatisfied or a fool satisfied? 249
- COMMENT: "Nurture makes actual what nature makes possible." 252
- Are "manners" important? 255
- Is Aristotle right about the "mark of virtue"? 257 About "the mean"? 259 Does the Confucian Doctrine of the Mean apply to philosophy itself, and some philosophers' tendency to over-emphasize "one aspect"? 261
- Should virtue expect a reward? 263
- What do you think is the best version of The Golden Rule? 264-5
- Do truly good people need a Golden Rule? 266
More DQs
- Name two or three of your favorite pleasures. Are any of them higher or better than the others? In what way? Are any of yours higher or better than those of a friend whose list includes none of yours? Why or why not?
- Is state paternalism ever warranted?
- Why don't we ever talk about state maternalism?
- What are the appropriate legal limits on speech and expression in a free society, if any?
- How would you reply to Wilberforce's debate question?
- What do you think was the best idea ever?
- Do you want a map of your own genome? Why or why not?
- Do you agree with Darwin that the subject of God is "too profound for human intellect"? Does it mean we should all be agnostic?
- What would you have done, in Abraham's position? Would you have doubted the "message" or challenged the messenger?
- Does it damage the parent-child relationship if Mom or Dad make it clear to the child that they'll always defer to the perceived instructions of a "heavenly father," even including murderous instructions? Does anything "trump the duty to be a good [parent]"?
- Would you ever do something you considered morally wrong, in the name of faith?
- Does taking a "leap of faith" make you irrational?
- How do you balance your subjective point of view with objectivity, and with the subjectivity of others? What role should inter-subjectivity play, in forming that balance?
- If you ever own a business will you pay your workers as little as possible and extract as much "surplus value" from them as you can?
- Is anything in history "inevitable"?
- Does religion make people more reconciled to oppression and exploitation, and less likely to revolt?
Was Mill right about Bentham's account of happiness? Would you rather be a sad human or a happy pig?
ReplyDeleteI think it's easy to say I'd rather be a happy pig, but knowing myself and my character, that wouldn't satisfy me. I'd want to seek out more. Though I value happiness almost more than anything, I need something greater to strive for. The College work load doesn't make me entirely happy as say, watching a show all day, but I do it because I feel I can do something greater.
If you heard a voice purporting to be God, telling you to murder your child, what would you do?
It would have to be a very convincing voice, but honestly I could never see myself doing it. I know I wouldn't have have strength or will to. But then again, I've never been in such a situation, and this voice would have to be beyond convincing so I wasn't to assume it was a random thought or some kind of loud speaker or trickery. Maybe a chip in my head at this point, you can never be sure.
Was Marx right about history as "class struggle"?
I'd say. Almost every problem humans face is caused or worsened by other humans, and many people just want to get a leg up on others. People who can manipulate the structure of society will come out on top, and then they are impossible to bring down. Corruption is often associated with powerful people for a reason, because it's hard not to give in to greed and other motives. Those in power will do what they can to stay in power, which is not beyond stamping out those that lie lower than them.
I like your response to the class struggle question. Some problems are also just come with living in a society amongst other people. We have government which helps us decide the best interest of the people or the country. We have freedom of speech to an extent, and we have a society structured to fill every working/non-working class. Some get to the top and stay there. Some work there way up. Some lose everything. Some stay in the working class. However, we can’t all be at the top without a widening a gap for labor.
DeleteCertain people at the top are greedy and get there as a result of corruption. Possibly it may not even be ‘survival of the fittest.’ It could be survival of the ones who can cheat and won’t get caught.
When I see someone cheating or getting by unjustly, my best advice for myself is to stay in my lane, but, then again, that’s not how revolutions get started. I just revert to my own morals and ethics rather than my duty as a citizen to voice my opinion.
H03
ReplyDeleteDo you watch TV (and YouTube, Netflix, etc.) and play video games as much as (or more than) the average American? 151 Do you think you watch too much? Do you read for pleasure?
I would say I do Watch TV and YouTube like the average American but sometimes I do feel like I do watch too much Television and I need to sometimes cut back to read more. And yes I would say I read for pleasure because I like to read about topics that I’m interested in.
Is it more important to form good habits or to follow strong principles, in order to build your character and become a good person? Or both?
I do think it’s important to form good habits by following strong principles. Because I think if you form good habits then you’re able to also set the foundation to have good principles that could turn into a healthy lifestyle.
If you pursue excellence (arete) in life will you be more likely to be happy? More or less likely to value happiness? What do these terms mean to you?
I think being able to pursue excellence can contribute to happiness but sometimes there can also be a downside to always pursuing excellence if something doesn’t turn out right. I guess happiness to me would be being able to find the positive side in things even if something does go wrong. And excellence to me would be being able to achieve a goal or goals in life.
H01 I agree with your last answer, pursing excellence can be tiring and very demotivating when you can't achieve excellence.
DeleteI too watch too much Netflx/youtube. I need to cut back because there are better things I could be doing with my time that could increase my pleasure in the long run.
Delete1. How did Mill disagree with Bentham about pleasure?
ReplyDeleteMill definitely thought that there were different types of pleasures. I think this ties in with what we learned earlier this semester about pleasure vs happiness. Mill describes that simple pleasures are the ones that are worth more than a ton of little pleasures. It seems to me he meant to say that happiness comes from what truly makes you happy and temporary pleasures are in-the-moment fixes to the problem of seeking happiness.
What did Mill mean by Happy Pig and Sad Human?
He was implying that humans have the better life than animals, but also there’s more to this. I believe his implication can be furthered to mean that humans have the greater capacity to contemplate and change.
In my opinion, I would rather be a happy pig. There’s less worrying and more joy. The simple life is key to the pig’s happiness.
I agree, I would also rather be a happy pig, even if it means being blind to some of reality, because in the end I would put happiness over mostly all else.
Delete(H03) “Darwin said the subject of God is too profound for the human intellect. 151 Agree?”
ReplyDeleteI agree. If there is a god, whatever that being is would not be something that humans could truly understand. We see ourselves as the most intelligent being and all though we may think we understand how a being could know more and experience more than a human, I don’t think we really do. God is often too simplified by religion. The thoughts and feelings of a god are not something that a human could understand.
“If you heard a voice purporting to be God, telling you to murder your child, what would you do?”
Truthfully, I don’t know. I would like to think I wouldn’t murder my child but how can anyone be sure? If I was fully convinced that it was god, who am I to tell a god no? There are many factors to take into account when answering this question.
H2
ReplyDeleteName two or three of your favorite pleasures. Are any of them higher or better than the others? In what way? Are any of yours higher or better than those of a friend whose list includes none of yours? Why or why not?
My first favorite pleasure is driving on the interstate at night, windows down, and music all the way up. There's something about it doing it that just makes me happy. My second favorite pleasure is playing video games. It's relaxing most of the time and a way to hang out with my friends when we can't in person. I don't think either are higher than the other one they just bring about different kinds of pleasure. And my list isn't better than anyone else's because it's my preference and nobody else's.
Do you talk to your plants?
I actually do talk to the one plant I have. I read a study where talking to your plants in a positive tone can actually help it grow and prosper. Also, it's almost therapeutic for some reason talking to a plant and helping it grow.
If you heard a voice purporting to be God, telling you to murder your child, what would you do?
I would absolutely not murder my child. I understand that for someone who is religious following the will of God is very important. For me though, I have recently been going through a phase where I don't know if I believe in God. Even if I did, murdering my own child is not something that I could do. It's just an idea that I find so crazy that I couldn't even consider doing it.
If you heard a voice purporting to be God, telling you to murder your child, what would you do?
ReplyDeleteThat would honestly be the hardest thing to ever do. I don't really know what I would do. As a Christian, I would definitely doubt but I feel like in the end, I would. If it's God's will, then it'll be so, but just like Abraham's story in the Bible, he did what God asked him to and then was given a lamb to sacrifice instead. So that story provides a sense of hope, but killing a child is NOT easy. It's inhumane and very depressing so who knows if my emotions would get the best of me. It's a very scary situation, but if it was God, then it's for his glory. Miracles happen, so I'd just have to trust in Him and that He'll come through for me.
Do you watch TV (and YouTube, Netflix, etc.) and play video games as much as (or more than) the average American? Do you think you watch too much? Do you read for pleasure?
I think I watch TV and play video games a little less than the average nowadays because of college. I just suddenly haven't had the time to partake in things things. I mean I still watch some TV like on Hulu or HBOMax, but other than that, I rarely turn on my Xbox. I would say I may watch too much, cause I'll get in that habit of bingeing a show that I really enjoy, but it's still less than the average American. And even now in college, I find it hard to read for my own pleasure. There's so much going on that I just can't pick up a book I like and sit down to read it. I do like reading, but as I've gotten older, it's become harder to find the time to do so.
Does taking a "leap of faith" make you irrational?
In some cases it can, but for the most part it doesn't. For example, I would say I take a "leap of faith" every time I go to a new restaurant I've never eaten at. Since I have an allergy, I'm putting my faith in the workers, chefs, and the food that I'm not going to have an allergic reaction and die. This doesn't make me irrational because it's an everyday occurrence. I think it just depends on the context. If it puts others in harm's way or at risk (even including yourself) then it becomes irrational, but if it's part of an uncontrollable circumstance than it's not.
H03
HO3
ReplyDeleteIf you heard a voice purporting to be God, telling you to murder your child, what would you do?
I would not listen to it. According to Pyrrho we cannot trust our senses. One of those senses being hearing. If I heard a voice even if I thought it was God, I would ignore it because I cannot think of a reason that it would be morally sound to take a child's life especially my own.
Was Mill right about Bentham's account of happiness? Would you rather be a sad human or a happy pig?
He was correct. I would rather be a sad human because personally I really dislike it when I am in the dark about something or unaware of the truth. I would rather be educated on the hard truths of reality than be blind and happy. With this idea, I reject the saying “ignorance is bliss.”
Name two or three of your favorite pleasures. Are any of them higher or better than the others? In what way? Are any of yours higher or better than those of a friend whose list includes none of yours? Why or why not?
Some of my favorite pleasures are playing soccer, being in nature, reading, visiting my sister's dog, and spending time with my friends and sister. I get the most pleasure or “highest” pleasure from being in nature, reading, and spending quality time with those I love. They are higher because they are the most rewarding and they make me incredibly happy.
[H2] HANNAH LITVJAK:
ReplyDelete"Were Walt Disney and Steve Jobs great Americans? Have their fantasy worlds made life better? 153-4"
What I wished people understood about Walt Disney in particular is that his intentions was to have an accessible and affordable place where families could connect and escape from life for a day or two; while some of his inner relations were controversial, when it comes to Disneyland and WDW, he is a great American in the sense that he wanted a place to unite people - and his execution was amazing. As for Steve Jobs, to modernize a staple in our lives makes him a great businessman, but I do not know too much about him to deduce that he is a great American - particularly the pricing of the iPhone and the like.
"Are you New Age? Do you believe you "create your own reality"?"
I believe I do, but it's more-so a coping mechanism for me. I try to live life as happily as possible and to take things one step at a time, and try not to get too intersected with things I cannot control that impact me negatively.
(H03)
ReplyDeleteIf you heard a voice purporting to be God, telling you to murder your child, what would you do? 152
If I heard a voice that claimed to be god, I would most likely ask for proof of godhood (or from a religious aspect, proof that the voice was not the devil) or check into a psych ward. I wouldn't kill any child at the request of a voice without extreme reasoning (IE: the end of the world due to the trolley problem). I'm no prophet, so if my first contact with god was being told to commit a horrible act with no reason I would likely assume I was insane or a less friendly deity was doing the talking.
Is anything in history "inevitable"?
Depending on what history you allow yourself to subscribe to, yes. I would argue that the past as it is is set in stone, as time travel is merely a concept and without confirming the existence of any god we would have no way to know it could be changed. I think the base factors that brought us into being such as how our ancient ancestors came to be are unchanging and inevitable in some form no matter where or when due to infinite possibilities.
Does taking a "leap of faith" make you irrational?
That depends. If you mean jumping from a building for god to save you, it's irrational and foolish. A leap in faith in others, or an emotional leap, perhaps holding out your hand for another to grab is far more rational. Testing the universe for blind faith is a way to have it extinguished, but recognizing signs or appreciating the existing world protecting you is far more practical and perhaps fulfilling.
I agree that history is set in stone in that it cannot be physically changed, but I think that our interpretation of history can be altered by a change in the way it is told and who is telling it.
Deleteh03
ReplyDeleteWhat did Marx call religion?
The opium of the people.
Name two or three of your favorite pleasures. Are any of them higher or better than the others? In what way? Are any of yours higher or better than those of a friend whose list includes none of yours? Why or why not?
It's a boring list, but horror movies, Teen Wolf, and eating out. These are just things that I can always count on to boost my mood, no matter how bad of a day I'm having. I wouldn't list any of them above anyone else's, because I love hearing about other people's favorite things. The best thing about a person is listening to them talk about something they're passionate about. No one's personal favorites can really be ranked with anyone else's purely because of that: people like what they like.
Do you watch TV (and YouTube, Netflix, etc.) and play video games as much as (or more than) the average American? 151 Do you think you watch too much? Do you read for pleasure?
I watch TV about as much as any other American, but I feel like maybe I invest too much time in watching movies. I love them, and often my friends haven't seen any of the ones I talk about because I'll watch almost anything if it's entertaining enough. I put a lot of energy and time on Marvel, Star Wars, and a few random TV shows, but I don't think it's to a detrimental point. I like Youtube, but I only watch it while I'm getting ready. I love to read, and spend maybe the most time and money on that.
Name two or three of your favorite pleasures. Are any of them higher or better than the others? In what way? Are any of yours higher or better than those of a friend whose list includes none of yours? Why or why not?
ReplyDeleteTwo of my favorite pleasures include the guitar and performance, The guitar is probably my highest, it really gives me an energy and inspiration that nothing else I have experienced has ever shown me. I don't think I'd value my passion over others, after all it often contributes to our pursuit of happiness and that is important.
If you heard a voice purporting to be God, telling you to murder your child, what would you do?
I would tell god to knock it off.
Do you watch TV (and YouTube, Netflix, etc.) and play video games as much as (or more than) the average American?
I don't think so, I rarely watch TV nowadays. Maybe a movie on the weekend. I use a lot of youtube for live music so yeah I'd say I have youtube up a lot.
Is it more important to form good habits or to follow strong principles, in order to build your character and become a good person? Or both?
ReplyDeleteI think its important to do both, sometimes you will have to develop habits of those strong principles so they go hand in hand.
What are the appropriate legal limits on speech and expression in a free society, if any?
I think that speech should not be regulated in a free society unless it poses a threat to someone.
Would you rather be Socrates dissatisfied or a fool satisfied?
If it means satisfied as in, I live happier, then i'm fine being a fool.
Does taking a "leap of faith" make you irrational?
Not necessarily, sometimes It's the only option.
H01
DeleteTo become a good person I feel as though you must have good habits more than just following a strong set of principles.
DeleteH1
ReplyDeleteMarx called religion the opium of the people. He believed it kept them away from full potential.
I can see where Marx's vision comes from, however I dont think it would work. Most people arent going to give something their all unless they know what they get in return. People are greedy, and want more than they need.
H01
ReplyDelete1. How did Mill disagree with Bentham about pleasure?
His account of happiness as pleasure was too crude
2. What view did Mill defend in On Liberty?
giving each person space to develop as they saw fit was the best way to organize society
3. What's the benefit to society of open discussion, according to Mill, and what's wrong with being dogmatic?
it forced people to think hard about what they believed and let go of dead dogmas - prejudices that you can’t really defend
4. Who did Bishop Wilberforce debate at Oxford in 1860?
Thomas Henry Huxley
5. The single best idea anyone ever had was what, according to whom?
Theory of evolution according to Daniel Dennet
6. What scientific developments since Darwin's time establish evolution by natural selection as more than just a theory or hypothesis?
Genetics
7. Who was the Danish Socrates, and what was most of his writing about?
Kierkegaard, his life/experiences
8. Why is faith irrational, according to Nigel Warburton?
Not based on reason
9. What is "the subjective point of view"?
the experience of the individual making choices
10. Why was Karl Marx angry? How did he think the whole of human history could be explained?
Poverty, class struggle
11. What was Marx's "vision"?
Eventually from all this bloodshed, a better world would emerge, one in which people were no longer exploited, but could be creative and co-operate with each other. Each person would contribute whatever they could to society, and society, in turn, would provide for them: ‘from each according to his ability, to each according to his need’
12. What did Marx call religion?
Atheist
Discussion Questions
Was Mill right about Bentham's account of happiness? Would you rather be a sad human or a happy pig? 139
I agree with Mill because the happy pig can serve no greater purpose than to become someone’s pet or dinner. Mill was right that we should be sad humans because then we will at least have the potential to push society further and do something with our lives.
Was Mill right about the importance of open discussion and free speech? 143
Yes. If everyone had to defend their beliefs we would live in a more educated society. There would be fewer flat-Earthers, anti-vaxers, etc. Also, people could build on ideas and help society to prosper.
What do you think of Huxley's reply to Wilberforce? 144
It was justified. Wilberforce was attempting to refuse and mock the idea of evolution before hearing Huxley out.
Is Dennett right about Darwin's idea of natural selection? 146
I think so because it opened a new area of discussion and the ability to believe in a lack of God. Evolution was a groundbreaking idea.
If you heard a voice purporting to be God, telling you to murder your child, what would you do? 152
I would probably turn myself into a psych ward because that is crazy.
Do you agree with Kierkegaard that faith is an irrational "leap"? 154
Yes, to have true faith in a specific God is to say that no other God exists. What if you are wrong?
Kierkegaard was a Christian who hated the Danish church and reviled "Christendom"... Was he a good Christian? 155
Yes, though he hated the church he still believed in God. He simply thought that you need to be more serious in your belief in God.
What do you think of "Marx's vision"? 161
Its good in theory, but it rarely works in practice.
I agree there would be fewer people that are anti-vax and flat-earthers. That is an amazing reference to compare it to. If they had to actually defend their position many people would not be able to stand their ground with solid evidence.
DeleteH01
ReplyDelete1. How did Mill disagree with Bentham about pleasure?
Mill said there were higher and lower pleasures. Higher pleasures were ones that used the mind and intelligence and they could bring more happiness than any lower pleasure. Bentham said that all pleasures can equal up to the same amount of happiness if you do enough of it.
2. What view did Mill defend in On Liberty?
Giving each person space to develop as they saw fit was the best way to organize society
3. What's the benefit to society of open discussion, according to Mill, and what's wrong with being dogmatic?
It forced people to think hard about what they believed. If no one challenges your beliefs with opposing views you'll hold them as "dead dogmas" which are prejudices you can't really defend.
(H2) If you heard a voice purporting to be God, telling you to murder your child, what would you do?
ReplyDeleteI cannot say I am a rather religious person, therefore if I heard a voice purporting to be God, I would not murder my child. Although following the words of Gods shows your faith, I could not morally bring myself to kill my own child. Also, who’s to say that I am not just hallucinating or being deceived by my senses much like Pyrrho’s concept.
Name two or three of your favorite pleasures. Are any of them higher or better than the others? In what way? Are any of yours higher or better than those of a friend whose list includes none of yours? Why or why not?
Two of my favorite pleasures include photography and playing video games with my friends. Personally, video games with my friends is higher on my list because it gives me the opportunity to hang out and better connect with people around me that I cherish. However, I do not believe my list is any better than another’s because what’s personal or important to me may not be as significant to someone else.
If you ever own a business will you pay your workers as little as possible and extract as much "surplus value" from them as you can?
I would want to be a fair boss and pay my workers the amount they deserve. My parents have experienced bosses who attempt to underpay and exploit their workers, and I would not want to put my workers in that kind of situation. In addition, underpaying workers could lead to an unsuccessful business because if they start to quit, I will not have any employees for my company.