Susan Neiman, Why Grow Up? Subversive Thoughts for an Infantile Age (not included on Exam 2)
Study Questions
1. Being grown-up is widely considered to be what?
2. Why did Kant say we choose immaturity?
3. Why is judgement important?
4. What is "the most pernicious bit of idealization"?
5. What is philosophy's greatest task?
6. What "perfidious reversal leaves us permanently confused"?
7. What are you committed to, if you're committed to Enlightenment?
8. What is freedom, according to Rousseau and Kant?
Discussion QuestionsWGU
- Do you think of growing up as "a matter of renouncing your hopes and dreams"? 1
- Do you like the "well-meaning Uncle's" advice? Or the Rolling Stones'? 4
- Is Kant right, in "What is Enlightenment?," about why people "choose immaturity"? 5
- If distractions, especially "since the invention of cyberspace," are "literally limitless," is Enlightenment in Kant's sense a realistic goal for most people? 9
- Do you agree that it takes courage to think for yourself? 11
- Is travel necessary for growing up? 13-16
- Is Larry Summers wrong about language-learning? 16
- Do you believe the best time of life is between the ages of 18 and 28? 20
- How innocent should childhood be? What do you think of the way French children were raised in the 17th century? 24
- Do you wish you'd had a Samoan childhood? Do you think tests in school prepare you for life? 27
- Is it bad to be "WEIRD" (In the sense of the acronym)? 32
- COMMENT?: "...the important decisions are made by others we cannot even name. Or did you choose a world in which oil companies profit from wrecking the planet? Women are stoned for adultery or murdered for going to school? Children die of easily preventable diseases or are collaterally damaged by drones? Do your choices make a difference to any of these?" 34
- Should philosophers pay more attention to child-rearing and parenting? 36
- What do you think Cicero meant by saying that philosophy is learning to die?
- Do you feel fully empowered to "choose your life's journey"? If not, what obstacles prevent that? 37
- In what ways do you think your parents' occupations influence the number of choices you'll be able to make in your life?
- If you've read 1984 and Brave New World, which do you find the more "seductive dystopia"? 39
- Are we confused about toys and dreams? 40
- Do others make the most important decisions for you? 41
- Do you "make a regular appointment with your body"? 42
- Do you trust anyone over 30? 45
- Is it "reasonable to expect justice and joy"? 49
- Are you "committed to Enlightenment"? 51
- Do the passions for glory and luxury make us wicked and miserable? 53
- What does it mean to say there are no atheists in foxholes? Is it true? 54
- Was Rousseau right about inequality and private property? 55
- Should philosophy be taught to children, so as to become thinking adults? 57
- Should children "yield to the commands of other people"? 61
- Should parents "let the child wail"?
- Are Rousseau and Kant right about the true definition of freedom? 62
- Is Rousseau right about desire? 65
- Did Rousseau's abandonment of his children discredit his thoughts on child-rearing? 69 Or show him to be a hypocrite for saying no task in the world is more important than raising a child properly? 72
American moral philosopher and author, Susan Neiman, talks us about why we have been tricked to think we are happiest when we are young and why it is we need to grow up. Watch the full interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeNQV... Institute of Art & Ideas
Do you think of growing up as "a matter of renouncing your hopes and dreams"? 1
ReplyDeleteI feel as people grow up society may find it to be acceptable to renounce certain hopes and dreams that seem to be immature.
Do you believe the best time of life is between the ages of 18 and 28? 20
In some ways I do think the ages between 18 and 28 are great moments in time to learn and grow from mistakes in life but I don’t necessarily think it’s the best time in life either. I feel people can have many great moments in life with different age ranges.
Do you feel fully empowered to "choose your life's journey"? If not, what obstacles prevent that? 37
I do feel empowered to choose my life’s journey because I sometimes find that some people feel like they can’t either because a person may feel they have to live up or live by someone else’s standards when choosing a life journey.
In what ways do you think your parents' occupations influence the number of choices you'll be able to make in your life?
In many ways my parent’s occupation helps influence choices I have and continue to make in life in terms of making certain decisions in life for the future and present plans I have for myself.
Do others make the most important decisions for you? 41
I feel others who are important to me can influence my decisions depending on the person but they don’t make the choices for me.
Should philosophy be taught to children, so as to become thinking adults? 57
I don’t see an issue with Philosophy being taught to children if it’s not forced more so given as an option.
H01
DeleteI agree that philosophy is ok to teach to children. I think it will benefit children and maybe their morals, especially when their brain are still developing.
H03: Do you agree that it takes courage to think for yourself?
ReplyDeleteIt depends on the environment a person grows up in. In some people's homes children are encouraged to think for themselves and explore educational possibilities but in others, children are strictly guided by their parents on what they should think. So yes, in some situations it does take incredible amounts of courage to people to think for themselves because they taught against it. And even in some other situations where a parent isn’t controlling a child, it can be quite scary to bring up new thoughts when you have no idea how others are going to react.
Is travel necessary for growing up?
I don’t think it is necessary but I do think it is valuable. Obviously, some people don’t have the ability to travel often especially with children. However, there are many benefits to exposing children to diverse environments, cultures, and individuals. Children are often grounded and surrounded by one environment with only one community and they are often not exposed to anything different for many years. It is important for children to learn about the differences in the world and it should be taught early on that these differences are not a negative thing. This can be done through travel.
Is travel necessary for growing up?
ReplyDeleteThere are many people that lack the luxury to travel as much as others, so I sure hope not. I've never left the states, even though I'd like to someday, but I've matured plenty over the years without going elsewhere. I'm not saying I'm grown up, but I've seen many grown ups who have lived in Tennessee their whole lives, my mother included.
Do you agree that it takes courage to think for yourself?
It takes lots. It depends on the kind of household you grow up in, but some can really tend to suppress your own freethinking, but I believe it eventually has to come around. Many people are pushovers for their whole life, which is a sad thing. For instance, many people, myself included in lots of situations, struggle to say no because of fear of upsetting someone. Even if often times it involves something you'd really rather not do. Peer pressure is an example of this. But I believe it's necessary to think of yourself. Still be kind and courteous to others, but take care of yourself first, then others later.
H03
ReplyDeleteDo you believe the best time of life is between the ages of 18 and 28?
I hope not. I think maybe 23+ could be the best times, because your life, or at least in my opinion, could start to settle. By then I'll have a job with good money and actually be able to do the things I want. Once I'm done with school and working to pay for school, I'll have free time to travel and pursue my hobbies, which kind of seems like the best time of my life for me.
Do you agree that it takes courage to think for yourself?
I don't know about it taking courage, but I do respect it, because it's easier not to.
Do others make the most important decisions for you?
No, because I'm stubborn and if the decision doesn't work out, it's my fault and no one else's. However, I do ask for the people I care about for their opinions, though it seems to go out the other ear most of the time.
Is travel necessary for growing up?
I think it's nice to travel and see the world, but I don't think it's necessary to grow up. In some regards, traveling around and never settling down somewhere might be avoiding growing up.
Should philosophy be taught to children, so as to become thinking adults?
ReplyDeleteI think in some aspects yes, like in lit classes or maybe even a choice in high school but not too much. Philosophy can be very hard to understand for some people so I think that in some cases (maybe the more intellectually advance) it should be taught.
Do you trust anyone over 30?
I do because they have experienced more in life than I have. Like my parents and grandparents I trust a ton when it comes to understanding the world. But there are instances where it is hard to trust certain people over 30. When it comes to politics, I sometimes find it hard for someone of a certain older age to be able to make decisions for a whole country. But that’s just my opinion. Politics is a very skeptical subject when it comes to age, but even then, you have to be older and more experienced in life to run for those offices.
Do the passions for glory and luxury make us wicked and miserable?
I would say and some terms yes. People who are only concerned about reaching these novelties, I would say it definitely makes them wicked and miserable because that’s their “purpose” in life. I feel like if people learn to accept these passions with responsibility, then it doesn’t make you wicked or miserable; it depends on your outlook of these ideals and what your gains would be.
H03
Talking about your last response, Jadon, I agree with what you're saying. glory and luxury are gilded. They look nice from an outside perspective, but neither change you as a person. It is not as "glorious" as it really seems. Also, I think an unhealthy want is a result of these things in which people are never fulfilled. When will you be satisfied and have "enough?"
DeleteH3
ReplyDeleteDo you agree that it takes courage to think for yourself?
I think it does take courage to think for yourself. You have to trust your own research and opinions rather than believing what other people have told you.
Is travel necessary for growing up?
I think travel plays a key role in growing up. If you are in the same place, you are not exposed to other ways of life or viewpoints. I think growing up and maturity includes learning things that oppose what you are used to.
The Cynic movement generally sees itself as a shortcut to virtue. The general values of Cynicism are that living in tune with nature and experiencing a life outside the constraints, expectations, and conventions of society is the ideal way to live a good life. A life filled with value made up by relations or physical objects is not virtuous, but rather the lack thereof and living with the hardships of nature allows one to rise. Diogenes is one such Philosopher that exemplified these views, living in a tub with only the clothing on his back. Known as a dog due to his shameless cynical behaviour, or Diogenes of Sinope, he brought much discussion directly to other philosophers, and his exemplified free use of speech regardless of consequence set him apart from his peers and other people in society in general. I also discuss David Hume, and his relative connections to our lesson through the sense of self, as well as his commitment to feelings and self over rationality and fact, and distaste to political/religious discourse, and show the contrast though both have been considered cynics.
ReplyDelete--GENERALLY: Cynicism is to deconstruct the values and conventions of society and why they would or would not apply or matter--
Questions:
Would you choose to live as a sceptic in the methodology of Diogenes, and if so, what would your reasoning be to do so?
Do you thing Diogenes was right in his more aggressive or straightforward speaking, or do you think that obscuring your whole thoughts or truths is better?
Do you see yourself as a sceptic? Either way, are there aspects of Diogenes’ skepticism that you can identify or agree with?
If you were called a dog by others, would you choose to own the name or see it as derogatory and attempt to be rid of it?
Do you see Hume as a sceptic? Would he be, in the same way as Diogenes is? Which do you agree with more?
Sources used:
https://iep.utm.edu/cynics/
https://www.etymonline.com/word/cynic
https://www.yourdictionary.com/dogmatic
https://pantheon.world/profile/person/Diogenes/
https://www.existentialcomics.com/comic/219
https://medium.com/@amereattempt1/the-story-of-diogenes-and-alexander-the-great-e59f85971f3f
https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/animals/miscellany/plato-and-diogenes-debate-featherless-bipeds
https://pantheon.world/profile/person/David_Hume/
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/hume/
(H03)
DeleteH01
DeleteI would not choose to live as a sceptic. I think it would be much easier to go with those around me, but I could see the appeal it had. I'm sure it would be nice to have no restraints in life, but it could also be very dangerous.
If I was called a dog I would have to know the tone and context before reacting. If it is a friendly joke which means no harm I would brush it off, but if they are doing so to be cruel I would be forced to take action by confronting the matter.
In what ways do you think your parents' occupations influence the number of choices you'll be able to make in your life?
ReplyDeleteMy parents’ occupation affected how much time I had with them from birth to even middle school. This affected the number of choices I had to make for myself versus the ones that my parents made for me or assumed. So, a lot of the time, I did not make choices about what I had to eat for dinner or when I would play and when I would do homework. A lot of those realized didn’t come into my hands until the end of middle school. Likewise, the choices about where we lived or the money or the city I lived in had not occurred to me until I matured. Things like voting and driving I am now able to do on my own.
Did Rousseau's abandonment of his children discredit his thoughts on child-rearing? 69 Or show him to be a hypocrite for saying no task in the world is more important than raising a child properly? 72
Upon finding out the news that he shortchanged the kids of their time with Rousseau rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe he had believed it was “too late” in their lives to start raising them optimally according to Emile. I am seriously interested in his reasons. I would like to believe that this does not discredit his sense of morality. In the book, Neiman suggests maybe it’s because of the life he led, constantly fleeing people’s ridicule, that he did not have more of a hand in his children's lives.
h2
ReplyDeleteDo you agree that it takes courage to think for yourself?
I do agree because having the ability to trust your own personal judgment takes some courage and self-confidence. It’s much easier for many people to blindly follow the ideas of other people or the mass majority because they don’t want to be singled out or against the popular consensus. Being able to put yourself out there and voice your opinions and beliefs is a skill that is challenging for countless individuals, especially when you don’t know how others will react.
Is travel necessary for growing up?
Traveling is not necessary for growing up. Children are able to gain the experiences and social skills needed in order to mature through their primary communities. However, I do believe traveling has its benefits. For instance, children are exposed to new environments with new people and communities. They are allowed to explore more of what the world has to offer and the diversity within cultures, religions, and beliefs that comes along with it.
H01
DeleteYes I agree that exposure to new environments definitely are beneficial for growing up because It takes you out of the bubble you are raised in.
Should philosophers pay more attention to child-rearing and parenting?
ReplyDelete-It would be nice if parents had a better idea of how to raise their kids and not fall into the traps their parents did, but it is difficult to know what makes a good kid and it is likely that the parent will not agree and will instead continue with their own child-rearing philosophies.
In what ways do you think your parents' occupations influence the number of choices you'll be able to make in your life?
- My mother was a stay at home parent, so I was able to develop with supervision. My dad was an entrepreneur for the most part and has had a steady income to support the family. I have rarely had to worry about my next meal or housing.
Do the passions for glory and luxury make us wicked and miserable?
- In some ways yes. The more you have, the more you want. This greed can contribute to the every man for himself society.
Should parents "let the child wail"?
- Though a child needs to learn self-sufficiency later in life, infants and even toddlers should not bear that responsibility. The more time spent with children the better even if they are screaming at 4 in the morning.
H01
DeleteI agree, I think glory and luxury make us wicked and miserable. It's evident in history. It also depends on what is considered glory or luxury.
H01
ReplyDeleteDo you trust anyone over 30?
Yes I trust people over 30 sometimes more since they have more life experience.
What do you think Cicero meant by saying that philosophy is learning to die?
I like so see it that we should accept that death is reality and is inevitable. That Philosophy is able to teach that this is a natural thing and shouldn't be feared.
Do you believe the best time of life is between the ages of 18 and 28?
Yes because our physical condition most likely allows us to do things that we can't do later in life.
H01 Barnes
ReplyDeleteDiscussion Question:
With the argument of everyone has the right to life, why is it ok to take the life of a person who is connected to you with no consent and not ok to perform an abortion with a fetus who formed with no consent?
Does anyone have the right to step in and intervene a situation leading to death of one or more people, or should we stand aside and watch the events unfold? Would you be the person to save five people at the cost of one or claim to not play God and watch as five died but could have been saved?
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